I was recently reading several interviews with senior
Okinawan Shorin-ryu instructors, Iha
Seikichi and Miyahira Katsuya, and in the course of those discussions they both
made the same point about kicking.
http://www.okinawankarateandkobudoinstitute.com/Seikichi%20Iha%20Sensei.htm
Miyahira Katsuya stated, “The Shorin-ryu stydent must work on retracting their kicks quickly. They must also practice kicking within an arm’s reach. This is highly important in doing good Shorin-ryu kicks. The kick does not extend out but within the length of one’s arm.”
Victor
Hi Rich,
I don't offer this as proof of anything, but as something provocative to
consider. One of the more interesting developments from our computer age is
continual new material to consider, as well as ongoing translations of older
'stuff' we haven't seen before.
I certainly think Okinawan senior's descriptions of their own arts worth
pondering.
When I watch Shimabuku Sensei's kicking technique on the video's, I can see a
connection to that point of view.
Of course this doesn't mean you can't kick at a further range, either, or that
it doesn't have relevance.
I do look forward to your own observations.
Victor
isshim2@... writes:
Of course this doesn't
mean you can't kick at a further range, either,
or that it doesn't have relevance.
Victor,
I agree with what you wrote in your last email. The above statement says it
all. I actually stood up, arm extended and kicked a few times to see
where my kicks were in relation to my arm. It passed my hand by a few
inches (about 6") and I have long arms. Anything less chokes the kick.
I retract my kicks fast and think of kicking myself in the butt with the
heel. The rest of what Iha sensei wrote I agree with.
This is just what I needed, more food for thought, another thing to study. Good article and a keeper.
Thanks or should I say gee thanks,
Rich and Victor,
Mr Harrill taught front
snap kick with the ball of the foot and the toe's at this distance, same length
as a punch, with the ball of the foot as the weapon it tends to be an upward
angle kick into the abdomen, this took a little bit of time to get use to,
John
My best example as to were to find the kick in Kata is in Kusanku were we do the backfist Front kick at the same time, the knee comes up and almost touches the elbow.
John
~Lee
Kerker added:
Mr Harrill taught front
snap kick with the ball of the foot and the toe's at this distance, same
length as a punch
Rich recalls:
Let's not forget the brush. Ahh yes the
brush kick. The one where he kicked you on the outside of the lower leg,
in an upward/brushing motion. Then there was the return to chamber heel kick.
The kick would either strike or pass it's intended target and on the way back,
just when you thought the worst was over, he nailed you with the heel as the
foot returned to chamber. I got these two types to the legs and more then once.
Kicking within the extended punch.
Now back to this other kick Iha sensei spoke of in the article Victor supplied.
1 - fully
extend an arm ( try it with either the left then the right arm )
2 - lift a leg into
chamber ( try both legs )
3 - now kick with full
intent making certain you foot does not pass the extended arm
I did this yesterday to test what Iha sensei said was the proper way to kick. First, the length of my thigh ( upper leg ) is almost as long as the extended arm to begin with leaving me with only a few inches of forward movement. By the time my lower leg hinges forward, I am past the extended arm. The only way in God's world I can stay within the distance of my arm is to kick short and choke the kick. No matter how I tried it reduced the power of the kick immensely. I tried pulling my hips back to gain some more distance, but that helped very little. I can use a rising kick to the groin, but that went way past the arm.
Darn Victor, look what you started. If I
didn't like it so much, I wouldn't be posting. Rich
Try pulling you knee higher than you are used to. That's how I learned it.
~Lee
I’ve been thinking about this kicking concept for some
time “In the "old days," the kick was never
extended past the extended punch”.
First I think we must consider that the use of
language (and of course translation) may not fully describe what is being done.
1. Delivering the kick as if you in
distance to strike a wall, and instead using the kick.
i. Targeting the lower abdomen.
ii.
Targeting the groin/legs
2. Delivering a kick with the same body
alignment as if you were striking, and not shifting the hip into the strike. In
that case your kick might hinge further than the fist.
3. Targeting a space one arm length from
the body that the opponent will be moving into as your kick is delivered. That
is not the same as kicking a static distance, but one where the opponent is
moving into the space you have taken.
I did locate some video of
his contemporary, Miyahira Katsuya, but
nothing that makes a case either way.
When I watch Shimabuku Sensei’s kicking technique in the 1966 Seisan kata versions, I see his marvelous chamber, and kicks that appear to strike to the groin or the legs. In that case I see striking the distance a fist can strike, reasonable. You can watch them yourself and make your own decision.
And that may well tie into Harrill Sensei’s Brush
Kick. [And perhaps the cutting kick of the Kashiba Juku folks.
I’m not sure any explanations of a systems kicking
technique can fully describe what they may do.
At one time or another I’ve been trained in kicking
from several different Isshinryu traditions, Korean Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan,
several different Chinese traditions (N. Shaolin and Tam Tuie) as well as
Indonesian ones. They each have their time and place, execution theories and
strategy.
Lower Body Combinations
1. Front Snap Kick
2. Knee
Strike (45degrees)
3. Front
Kick (Side)
4. Cross
Kick
5. Side
Snap Kick
6. Heel
Strike (Knee)
7. Knee
Strike
8. Rear
Kick
9. Side
Kick (45 degrees rear)
10.
Squat Kick
11.
Side Kick (on Floor)
12.
Front Thrust (from floor)
13.
Double Jump Kick
14.
Roundhouse Kick
15.
Side Kick (Rear 45 degrees), Rear Kick
Victor
~Lee
Hi Rich,
Last night my group too was working on kicking in the striking range.
Working on the standing bag we found it was exactly as John described,
a rising kick into the lower abdomen range.
Opening a fascinating line of kicking investigation. Victor
a rising kick into the lower abdomen range.
Victor,
Draw a straight line down either your left or right side. One from the center of the arm socket to the center of the hip. Now extend your arm and measure from that line to the end of your fist. Do the same with the leg. I guarantee the leg is longer then the arm. Therefore, you must choke the kick or make it rise and choke it to stop it at the end of that arm.
Lee suggested bring the knee up more. If I pick my knee up more, then the rising kick can go higher. But I still, according to Iha, can't past the extended arm. I have seen a great deal of people kick and for sure they are passing the extended arm. I am referring to Isshin ryu people, including myself. Yet they snap and pop the kicks. The kicks are fast, smooth and very effective.
I am waiting for Iha to write me back. Then I will clarify what he wrote in his interview. This made me stop and think which is a very good thing.
Rich
I agree it is fascinating topic and look forward to
any response you get from Iha Sensei. I do belive the concept is open to a
number of different meanings depending on definition.
If I had been a student of Harrill Sensei I would practice exactly as trained.
Having been a student of others I follow those paths, but am always willing to
learn and try.
The immediate result of this will not change my basic teaching approach, but it
may have an impact on advanced kicking studies.
Of course it's not necessary one has the strongest kick (or technique) or the
fastest kick (or technique) but simply that one has the right speed and power
to place the kick (technique) into the right space and time so it has an effect
on the attacker. Not a suggestion how to train but a comment on the use of
strategy and tactics. The time to strike is when the opportunity presents
itself, of course.
Victor
Rich and Victor,
Sensei first showed me this kick in the
summer of 1992, After he showed this to me he said," Now young man, don't
let this change the way I taught you to kick in Kata." The two places he
told me to think of this was the back fist front kick combo in Kusanku, and the
last kick in Seisan Kata.
Als when Sensei would apply this, a trapping seizing type of technique was used prior to the kick
Think of it this way, how many different types of handstrikes did you see him employ? Those many ways of striking though never changed the way he ran his Kata.
John
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znNZKMaBVDg
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