The Isshinryu Experience – a philosophical thought

 Knowledge of the original karate systems explains what other systems would go through in later years.

9-11-2001 

 

The Isshinryu Experience – a philosophical thought 

 

 You need to look at what Ginchin Funakoshi's Shotokan went through.

[This is being cross posted on Pleasant Isshinryu, Isshinryu the Original List, The One Heart Way List and the Prisshin]

Against the backdrop of continual controversy of what Isshinryu constitutes, which Seniors are correct and all the rest it the often overlooked fact that what is playing out is simply a natural growth of a system.



If you go through Harry Cook’s text “Shotokan Karate a Precise History” you’ll clearly see the rise and development of Shotokan went through all of the same stages we experience within the Isshinryu world.



Originally Funakoshi Ginchin promoted students to Sho Dan ( and even Ni Dan) with one year of training.  He was most interested in getting his system established in Japan, and keeping those who trained involved and staying within his art.



His art underwent continual growth and refinement, and much of it was with him being simply an observer. In his 50’s when he went to Japan in 1922, by the mid 1930’s he began to leave active instruction for those he originally trained. His son was actively involved with some of the systems development, but some of the later instructors were not present during those years, and when they re-established contact with the main system after WWII, with Funakoshi Sensei too old for direct control, his son dead,  he  refused to go along with later developments casing irreparable splits between different Shotokan factions.



Shotokan had its factions which developed kumite as the main focus of the system, including use of Kendo Armour for same, it also had those factions which followed no sparring in the instruction. Both groups prevailed, and while remaining separate, continued to develop and flourish in their own right.



While ‘bunkai’ was not a formal focus of the developing Shotokan system, in that Funakoshi Ginchin felt the purpose of the system was a ‘Do’ to only develop character, there was much individual study of same within the seniors, although it was not dropped down to the lower levels of training on an organized basis.



It is obvious that all of the developing factions following Funakoshi’s teachings picked and chose what they wished from his teachings and writings to meet their own goals.



Funakoshi Ginchin was not above this himself. He was vehemently against others changing kata for example, but he did so himself. Harry Cook pointed out that most likely the answer was he was against anybody but him doing so.  Hmmmmm.

 

After his death in the 1950’s, the factions (the JKA and the Shotokai) strongly insulted each other breaking any chance of reconcilement.  Other factions developed within the JKA because they developed very strong rules for giving ‘international instructor status’ with stringent training.  While their goals were noble, they also froze out many outstanding karateka from having a say in the system, in that they couldn’t go through the instructors training program. Where that program developed many outstanding instructors, it use to exclude others with high level skills, from having a say in the JKA development caused further splits and other groups to develop.



Then money and power and control issues continued to flourish, and time and time again the patterns repeated.



Now when you compare those issues with Isshinryu’s spread to the world, you really see that everything we discuss and compare is nothing but a repetition of older patterns. I strongly suspect they arise out of one individual, the founder, trying to do too much too fast.



That isn’t bad, the world gained a great deal from Funakoshi’s efforts.  And in full comparison the world gained a great deal from Shimabuku Tatsuo’s efforts, too.



But I think it is significant point that the sub-themes which follow from those trying to follow the original tradition aren’t new nor are they likely to change.



Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

 

 

Addendum:  Later events  would me drop further references to Harry Cook. Not because of his historical writings. Rather because of ethical reasons as a result of his conviction on child abuse.

Children in the Dojo

 5-15-2001

 

Sharon Hayakawa discussed her caring for Mr. Oyata’s children in the dojo.  That brings memories back to mind.



Most of the time instructors are reflections of how their own instructors taught and were taught themselves.



My original instructor studied in Okinawa under Shimabuku Tatsuo, but to be more exact most of the time Senior Students (Okinawan and American) did most of the instruction in Okinawa, under the eye of Shimabuku Sensei. Then if he felt a student was working hard enough he would descend onto the school floor and demonstrate something new for the student.



When I was a beginner, my instructor and a large group of his black belts (2nd through 5th dans) did all of the instruction, most of the time his black belts running a large piece of the class, under Sensei’s direction.



Then about 23 or so years ago when I began to teach I was the only instructor I knew who was exclusively teaching children. (in the ensuing years I’ve spent about 2,800 hours just teaching youth, and about 1,800 hours teaching my adult program, with 99.99% of those hours my own directly teaching).  I vividly recall my fascination with the early instructors of Okinawan Te, a fascination that continues to this day.  I was always most interested in what things were like before large group instruction became the norm, and have tried to pattern my dojo on what I believe were those origins, when a one to one relationship with the Senior was held throughout one’s karate career.

 

When I was a beginner, there was not a separate program for youth.

Departing Isshinryu on All Tracks……….

 8-22-2001

 

Some of this last week’s discussion has brought up the fact that some martial artists have passed from the Isshinryu scene.



I’m sure there are multitudes of reasons.



 If only considering those from a positive nature, they might include, relocating and training with the martial art that’s closest and most reasonable for one’s new environment. Or they may include finding an art with a range of technique not found in Isshinryu, and being interested in such techniques makes the appropriate changes.  Or they may include meeting an instructor with vastly superior skills in the mind of the person making the change and choosing to follow that person’s skills, as opposed to remaining in Isshinryu.



Then there are those negative reasons, cost, conflict with class members, conflict with the instructor, and so forth.  I’m choosing not to dwell on them at this time.



And this can happen at beginner stages, at advanced kyu stages, and at anytime in the black belt level, too.



My own seniors, with my distance from their schools, and Charlie Murray returning to the Air Force, felt I should find the strongest school to train with (as there was no Isshinryu nearby my home) and follow that path.  My instructors impressed on me I would always be one of their dans, and they felt becoming the best martial artist one could be was most important than the art.



I did follow some of their advice. I found incredibly powerful artists, with arts more complex, with greater application potential in use than I had seen, and were willing to share with me, an outsider. At the same time I knew my instructors were likewise powerful in their own ways, and among the best individuals I’ve ever seen on every level, too.  My path choose to seek out and attempt to learn from others, but to then return that training within my Isshinryu path and seek to strengthen my own Isshinryu to counter those other ways.



There are always arts, harder and softer than Isshinryu.  More complex and less complex, with more applications and with far different ranges of technique.  As well as there are great martial artists in almost every area of study, if you work to find them.  But at the same time, regardless of what others have, there is nothing second rate about Isshinryu either.  All of this simply presents challenges each will address or not.



But it is interesting to understand those who’ve moved on.  So I’d like to tell a brief story about one of the early ones.  In the early 80’s I attended a summer  IKA party in Salisbury, Md. Where among other events I was promoted to San Dan.  I also met one of Tom’s close friends, Rich Nemara.  Rick was retiring from the Washington, DC Police Force after 20 years and was regaling us with various stories about various police incidents he was involved with using hand to hand skills (even including some where it took 20 brother officers to restrain an individual after Rick and his nightstick failed too).

Rick Nemara was an original student of Don Nagle, from the North Carolina days (very early in American Isshinryu history).  He told us how in those days Mr. Nagle had a number of different dojo and he would travel between them, and on the nights he’d show up everyone had to spar with him. He mentioned one time when everyone in the dojo ended up in the hospital from kumite with Mr. Nagle.  I imagine those were very intense days.

 

Rick was both a 5th Dan in Isshinryu and a 5th Dan in Bando, at the time I met him.  In Bando only 5 dans were awarded.  I never had a chance to discuss why, but for some reason Rick was one of those who passed on, retaining super friendships with Tom and Don Bohan among others, but choose to follow that different path.



Several weeks after that meeting I attended the annual Bando Summer Camp.  Quite an interesting experience in its own right. Dr. Muang Gyi was there as were Don Bohan and many of his people, Bob Maxwell a real powerhouse in Bando from my perspective, Rick and many others including others from Mr. Lewis’ Isshinryu. While Rick ran a great seminar on chokes (how to apply ones like the ‘naked strangle’), his greatest impression was when he dropped by the seminar on breaking.  



Now at the Bando Summer Camp nobody wore rank or obi. The Bando Seniors obviously knew who they were, but the rest, kyu and dan, all looked and trained alike (abet with different skills).  As it turned out all of the students for the breaking were the kyu’s.  One instructor was showing how to punch through several boards laying on two cinder blocks, and person after person were jumping up and driving a strike down to try and break them.



A number of the Bando Dan’s were standing by, watching and chatting when Rick came up and observed what was going on. After watching one gentleman spring up into the air and then drop down just barely breaking his boards, Rich strode out and proclaimed, “No you’ve all got it wrong.”



He then proceeded to stack 3 or 4 boards on the cinder blocks, put either a small telephone directory or a towel on top, slowly raise his palm about 4 inches over the boards, and then slap down with his palm (and his body wasn’t behind the strike, either)  to demolish them in one fluid movement.



This got all of the dan’s attention and for quite some time, the rest of us were beating our hands red trying to duplicate Rick’s compression break.  I don’t recall if any of us got it.  But Rick showed a different way and left an impression.

 

I’m sad to say several years later I received a call from Sensei telling me I had to come down to Salisbury and attend  a Bando/Isshinryu tournament. He had originally held one in 1970 and was holding one again. But this time Rick was dying from cancer and we were all getting together to honor him (and raise some funds for his expenses too). It was a good tournament and an emotional day all in all.



Rick did leave us, as is the way of the world. He was a powerful force which drew Isshinryu and Bando together in his days, and as I remember him, always, was a great and powerful force in his own right.



I’m sure some of you may remember Rick and perhaps can add some of his story for the rest, too.



Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2023/08/memories-of-rick-niemira.html


https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2021/02/rick-niemira.html

Concerning the Chinese origins of the Okinawn arts

5-10-2001



Evening All (at least the night is falling on a perfect May evening in New Hampshire, far from the heavy snowfalls of March),

Mario,



Thank you on your confirmation of Sifu  Jamal Al Bakkar.  I am not familiar with him, but I am well awre of the Hung Gar system. I’ve long had Bucksam Kong’s book on the Tiger/Crane Form, one of their major sets.  Unfortunately the book itself cannot convey the essence of Hung Gar.



It seems to me that the book he’s written of most interest, on Iron Thread and Sanchin is not available to the public.  That of course makes it impossible to determine whether his analysis is correct or not, either.  It also seems to me to be the only text he’s offering which addresses this issue.   It may well be there are parallel interests in these arts.  If so we then have to surmise if they originated from a common source.



As for the rest, it would appear we either wade through the books (or the charts) and determine if there are enough parallels to Okinawan arts for a direct correspondence to Hung Gar.  



From my own vantage point, as clear as Bucksam Kong’s text is, I do not see a direct correspondence to Okinawa.  Perhaps this means we really need to obtain some video record.

 

My friend Ernie Rothrock’s contention is that the Chinese Art of Hsing Yi is the closest overall Chinese Art he’s seen that compares to Okinawan Karate.   He’s referring to the means of generating and issuing energy, not parallels in form technique.



Does anybody have any reasonable suggestion how to obtain video tape of Hung Gar Form Iron Wire (Tiet Sin Kuen)?  I believe I would pursue that before buying charts, or books aboug Hung Gar. (note: this was written before You Tube was common.)



To Change the topic now, most of this afternoon I’ve been thinking about Fernando’s post to Travis about Matayoshi and Kingai-ryu.



I concur with Fernando regarding Matayoshi’s Seisan and parallels to Ueichi Seisan.  Now I don’t know a great deal about Matayoshi Sensei.  I know he was primarily a weapons instructor, with a bent to Chinese influenced weapons alongside the Okinawan arts. I have his first Tsunami tape and vividly recall his Eku form on the beach, how he was using Nihanchi style stepping to flip sand into the eyes of an attacker, and saw definite Bunkai of same to Nihanchi stepping, too.

As many have commented on Matayoshi changing his kata for public demonstration, I wonder if his long years of training had created a Personal Art, as opposed to a system.



One of my original instructors always maintained the first 20 years you were the product of your instructor. After 20 years your art became yours.


 

In the older tradition of personal instruction, with nothing documenting their practices, except the template of the kata, with one-to-one situations, it would be easy to change things for different students. This could be the result of 1) meeting the individual student’s needs 2) changing as the instructors viewpoint changed 3) originally being taught multiple versions of the forms, among still other reasons, too.



Does this mean that Matayoshi was really showing his personal art?  It may be the case if as Fernando maintains.



This might also explain why a Kyan Sensei or a Tatsuo Shimabuku Sensei taught their kata differently to different students.  The template of the kata in their minds, may well have been influenced by their personal art.

 

Well I don’t want to descend into the babble complex at this time, so I’m drawing this to a close.



Victor

Hmmmm do kata techniques have applications

 10-24-2001

Hmmm, I’ve just discovered this discussion on Bunkai, must have been occupied on the world scene before.



As you’ve been discovering this is a multi-layered discussion involving Japan, Okinawa, China, kick-boxing and a whole lot of other issues. I’d like to make some observations from my experiences, but essentially they always involve ‘Faith’, for if you believe something to work and sell it, it does work. If on the other hand you don’t believe it and cannot sell it, it won’t work, regardless of how and where you train, regardless of system or approach.



This last summer I had an exchange teacher from outside Tokyo staying with me in New Hampshire, USA for several weeks.  Years ago in college he trained in Shorinji-Kempo and while no longer practicing sure was taught correctly and had incredibly wicked locking techniques as we discussed things for fun.  When I brought up the term ‘Bunkai’ he had no idea what I was talking about.  I thought I was probably mispronouncing it (studying in English only in the USA certainly doesn’t qualify me to pronounce Japanese at any level), but once I explained what I was meaning he told me that term had no relevance in his previous training. In Shorinji-Kempo they used some other term.



As he is an English teacher, we discussed the word, and I explained how the Japanese Karate systems apparently derived and developed this term (it does not exist in Original Okinawan Hogan as such).  Once he understood what I was referring to, he explained to the average Japanese they would have no martial association with the term Bunkai, but would understand it more as used say with a car, to take it apart.



Which while interesting, it is also interesting how this term did move from Japan to the USA and from what I’ve heard from here over to Okinawa (where apparently some have begun to use it too).



In Okinawa, for most Okinawan’s Karate wasn’t about being the toughest man on the block. Individuals may have felt and acted that way (as in some of the stories attributed to Motobu) but on the whole it does seem Okinawan Karateka were more involved in seeing karate as a development of the person, not the warrior.  In the older Okinawan systems (as referenced by Dan Smith in Cyber Dojo numerous times) they didn’t have an Okinawan term for punch or block either. The closest Hogan term translates “Place your arm here” and was used for multiple purposes.



As originally Okinawan karate was taught very privately, they didn’t develop later terminology probably developed to teach it in the Japanese controlled school systems. If you didn’t have terms, others couldn’t get them  (Try noticing how different schools call the same kicks by different names for example), and as the teaching was one to one, the terms weren’t important.



As for applications, historically they were shared only with the most trusted, long term students, and often were only told, you will have to work them out for yourself. After all they were running a training program, they weren’t turning out instant warriors.



Bunkai as the term came into martial use has different meanings. To some it is the basic explanation of a movement taught for a kata, often against seemingly unrealistic attacks. In those uses the Bunkai is most likely to teach how the student should spatially orient oneself.  In the learning movement stages of instruction, worrying about selling a Bunkai is rather dubious.



Now Bunkai comes in many different flavors. I’ve trained with Shotokan stylists (from Indonesia) which have extensive bunkai (taught only after Sho-dan) that use the kata movements as mnemonic devices to layer hundreds of great techniques (most often having nothing to do with the kata). Those stylists train against random attacks, after long training against lunge punches first to build techniques. Likewise as many attacks start with grabs, lunge punches are good to build skills that will work well against opening grabs too.   So that’s one type of Bunkai.



Then there are those schools using formal Bunkai of kata directly against formal attacks, especially as in the Video tapes you mention. Well do you really believe they actually think they can teach everything they know on one video tape, or that they even want too. Perhaps they are sharing a piece of their knowledge, and a lower level one at that…..



Then there is another school, which breaks the kata down into innumerable sub sections not necessarily associated with the obvious one’s you originally train in.  In this case any movement contains dozens of potential applications, against an incredible wide range of attacks.  Of course one has to practice anything, but I train with a gentleman from Caron Iowa who’s been doing this for 40 years, after returning form Okinawa, and he can spend hours showing you how to use any one movement from any Okinawan kata and not repeat himself.



In Okinawa the normal approach was to train the student.  The practice of kata, going back to the Chinese roots, was most likely intended to develop the energy of the practitioner, and the application was the channel to use the developing energy.



What balderdash to believe there are really new movements that haven’t been encountered in the past. Nor do new kata need to be developed, there is an incredible wealth of movement already there.  You’re worried about unbeatable round kicks, well I saw a Bando stylist break the arm of a person trying to low block it 25 years ago (and believe me Bando practices forms) the same kick the Tai Kick Boxer uses. My own Isshinryu uses a similar version of that round kick (although slightly differently on impact – ball of the foot instead of the shin) and it is contained on our kata.  The person using the low block simply made a bad choice or was improperly trained.  Of course I’d use Itosu’s approach against such kicks, a solid front kick to the supporting leg, and Itosu was the father of Funakoshi Ginchin’s karate….  Perhaps you should check out Robert Smith’s ‘Martial Musings’ and his own views on real kicking, or the lack of importance of same in combat.



Take Isshinryu’s founder, Shimabuku Tatsuo. He taught his Marine students 8 empty hand kata, and one or two kobudo kata in the 16 months they trained there (50’s and 60’s), and perhaps another 40 self defense applications (thought many Marines didn’t get them).  My own instructor came from there and I was not taught any application for any kata.  In that it was a pure Okinawan answer.  But those 40 self defense techniques contain enough to stop any attack, anytime if you train properly. Of course that is the real issue.



I’ve done lots on my own to understand how my karate can be used. I’ve also been fortunate to study with Sherman Harrill who does take things down to incredible levels of usage (just went through  a clinic with him yesterday).  The issue goes back to my initial argument, faith.



Yep, things are not equal. Some schools don’t teach applications, some do, some only after advanced black belt. Heck all there is  movement, and if you know your own art you should learn how to sell any movement to stop almost anything. How to do that is the challenge everyone faces. If you can’t do it and your instructors didn’t make that clear to you it still is the real issue.



Kata, it’s Bunkai or application analysis is as real and alive as you choose to make it. It is also as meaningless as you wish it to be. In and of itself it is a tool, filled with far more than its creators ever knew or intended, that you can believe in and find use for, or discard as you chase another effort.



But consider, regardless of which non kata approach you choose, you still move and learn how to sell it, or not.  So prove to me there’s a difference, except in the faith a person has in it.



I don’t need faith for what I do, I know how I can use it. Make sure you are as sure of your own choice.



Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

How it began - Pleasant Isshinryu

9-10-2001

Hi,

I don't know if you're interested, but as an alternative to the wide wide world of current Isshin-non/Isshin discussion, I created a new discussion group "Pleasant Isshinryu" at Yahoo.Groups.com.

Based on the principle that free speech does not exist on the group and NOBODY is allowed to get nasty or discuss 'RANK' and such issues. Instead Pleasant Isshinryu discussion where everybody will respect everybody.

So far today I've discussed an application of Chinto, why individuals have left Isshinryu for other training, and there's been a discussion on Matoyshi's Kobudo begun.

It may not succeed, but if you're interested let me know and I'll add you to look at what we're trying.

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu




When I decided an Isshinryu discussion group, I wanted to find a unique identifier for the group.  On the Original Isshinryu List a member created the Alfred E. Gami as a pleasant look at Isshinryu.


I thought of the Alfred E. Gami would be a great way to symbolize what I hoped the group could become, a unifying way to discuss Isshinryu in a pleasant manner without the vituperative discussion that would pop up on the other Isshinryu lists.
 

For the most part we succeeded for over 10 years and only one time did I have dismiss 3 members who could not  live up to our principles, I tried multiple times to calm them down. It was not successful and so I followed what I promised.

After Facebook took discussions over and those discussions got calmer. I hoped my group Pleasant Isshinryu played a small part of that happening.

Patrick McCarthy and I

Another telling of my experiences with Patrick McCarthy.

 

Dxxxxx, as you have noticed I have my fingers in a lot of martial discussions around the world, Most of them never reach our classes, much more involved than they are. Then again nobody in the world has had a similar background as I have experienced, and as a result what I teach is not the same as anybody elses has either. Of course all that it matters is what level of skill you reach.



My knowledge of Patrick McCarthy is a complicated story.



Back when I was a new Black Belt I heard of him as a National Karate competitor. Never met him then but I did know people who competed against him.



His back story is the normal complicated story of many from his generation. I believe he was originally with Daniel Pai of Pai Lum Kung Fu. Then he moved west and linked up with a karate dude from Japan, Richard Kim, that led him to other things.



I knew him from his early books, far fewer back then. One of them was a early book on Ancient Okinawan Kata, which were more Kim’s Japanese kata. And he was one of the first to publish books on what the Bubishi was about. I remember buying them and reading them.



He ended up moving to Japan, and linking up with many instructors there, eventually marrying a Japanese wife, and eventually moving to Australia. One of the things he did then was to start his own society called ancient arts or Koryu Uchinadi. He claims his new instructor was an older Okinawan one, and started teaching ancient forms, and he and his wife started translating older books and versions of the Bubishi.



When I joined the internet he was one of the people I first ran into having a large argument with Jim Keenan, who would later become a friend in the area, who was also a Japanese and Chinese translator who worked for the department of defense. They were having an argument over the translation of his new Bubishi then published by Tuttle. I got in the middle chastising them for arguing in public, Jim Keenan was also originally Isshinryu but trained in many Chinese Arts and studied in Israel, with the founder of Krava Maga. Which is very different from the pap versions taught over here.



Long story short another of my friends, Joe Swift, who was also Isshinryu and a translator in Japan, was also a friend of Patrick.



But what he was teaching was dubious. One of the big forms he used was Aragaki Seisan, which he claimed was a very old form. Wrong. He eventually admitted he created itl, and many others, to sell to those who joined his group.



Hearing this I had misgivings about him. For one thing though he traveled the world giving his clinics, I knew you only receive deep instruction if you train with someone full time. Clinics are not bad, just you cannot really get what someone has in a few hours or day. What you can get may be valuable, but not the same thing.



The Martial Arts world beyond what we do  can be very complex.



Well around 1980 Joe had me translate several books by Japanese instructors in French for him. Patrick heard about it, and several years approached me to translate a French book on the Bubishi by a guy who had a different Japanese instructor. So I did it and it took about a year. I got to see a book I could not afford. Patrick wanted the translation for his own purposes. Both of us used each other.



Eventually I did that for several other books for him.



Never joined his group, never was interested for I had more than enough as it was.



That was when I started writing many articles about the Bubushi. More questions from someone who  read various translations. Never had many answers, but because I actually read the book, I found I was one of the major contributors on the Bubishi. What I also found is than almost no one else talks about it. Most are too intimidated about it. Also note the Okinawans do not write books about the Bubishi for the most part. What they see, they do not share, They have written a bit in their encyclopedia of Okinawan Karate, but that has not been translated into English.



Separate take, eventually I learned Patrick used a portion of my translation to publish in his groups magazine, It was under my byline, but I was not in the group and did not see it. Apparently that year I was awarded the groups Translator of the Year honor, but I was never told about it. I learned about it from someone else years later.



Really did not have much to do with him after that.



He continued to sell himself and his group. Finding many who wanted links to older arts, And he continued to translate other early books.



None of this had anything to do with what we teach.



I did think is strange that he kept announcing he was a student of a senior instructor, but never taught that style.



He kept marketing his own stuff, and then started pushing is own fighting technique series, based on what is modern MMA for his version of Karate.



Then 6 or so years ago he was going to be in Londonderry at the House of the Samurai.



There is a lot of side story to that but for simplicity I will skip it.



So that weekend I spent a lot of time with him. We had a great deal in common, knowing many of the same people. And he has a ton of interesting stories about his time with them….. And he likes to talk. I on the other hand was trying to describe my own experiences. But as it turns out he was not really interested in that, just pushing his own stuff.



The clinics on Sat and Sun were general in nature. Some students from a Florida School in his group, were there to help him. They were incredible athletes, went non stop for the two days and not even winded. The clinic was a general introduction to what he was teaching.



He talked a great deal with me, over lunch and in the evenings. Fri and Sat.



I paid a little attention to the clinic, but it was not what I see my karate as needing in the least. A different dimension of karate. Neither good or bad, just different.At heart a focus more for those interested in Karate as MMA fighting.



The end result I got to feel what he was doing.Then again both of us managed to talk past each other. He never really listened to me.



Then he had his wife send me a mess of video’s on his stuff and granted me access to his groups server and stuff,



Of course the real purpose of his visit was to convince a husband and wife to break from Rich Bernard who had trained them since they were kids, and start a new school to teach his stuff. Another long story having nothing to do with us.



As for me he was doing all of it to convince me to join his group, and of course pay the fees for the membership, the clinics, and the dvd’s and the books.  None of which interested me one whit as I like what I do.



I did like the fact I actually got to meet the man, see his stuff, watch his people do it. It was interesting to understand what he was doing.



But when I told him I wasn’t interested in that, that I had no intention of teaching his stuff, nor joining his group. And the biggest heresy that I taught for free, he dropped me like a hot potato. Out of his website, and never heard from him again.



Nor was I disappointed. It is what it is. If that is what one wants, fine.


But it was interested in being in a situation where there was so much discussion, and no listening on either side what the other was saying.


Now I have no problem with you going to that weekend and gaining your own experiences. That is good as you want to do it.


But it might be easier not to mention who your instructor is. Of course that is your choice after all.


Know that I am proud that you are my student.


More than a bit long winded, but it might help you understand Patrick a little bit. The complicated thing is I have friends with very different opinions too. :-)



https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2024/11/my-experiences-with-patrick-mccarthy.html