Tuesday, March 26, 2024

A discussion on Udundi Kata Anyone?

    

Yet another old discussion from long ago. It still is interesting.


 元手二 Motode Ni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A5k4emukhA



合戦手 Kasshindi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIv7k-saC1w


Wondering if maybe we should move some of the more recent discussion to a more general udunti thread? Not strictly forms and applications anymore...


And by the way, still waiting on my sensei to post anything on youtube...


As for the kiko question, I haven't been taught anything resembling kiko as of yet...and I did a few workshops in qi gong with an acupuncturist here a few years ago, so have some experience with the Chinese version. 


However, we do have teaching of tsubo for fighting applications and I know my Shihan is interested in breathing techniques. Our ti-no-moto exercises may also seem somewhat kiko-like, but again the ideas of energy creation and storage are not explicit. Why we do it has always been given a more mechanical explanation, so as to prepare the heart, lungs, and tendons...perhaps not so different in practice...


Also, I think "ti" is sometimes misunderstood as meaning something similar to "ki/qi", but the "ti" in udunti is the same as the "te" in karate. We don't use "ti" other than in compounds like udunti and ti-no-moto, etc. 


There's a big misunderstanding from Uehara sensei's dvd that he is supposedly knocking his uke down without touching them, when in fact they are doing what they have been trained to do to avoid his weapon and get in position to attack again--nothing to do with "ki" power transmission whatsoever (you see that stuff on Japanese TV every once in a while).


Is the idea of a family of related "ti" systems primarily Mark Bishop's interpretation? I'm not sure that term is used in Japan that way (definitely not by my sensei, though he may be biased!)


Gesar--

No information for you on the history of sword arts in udunti. Still reading through a bunch of other stuff in Japanese. I know some people say it was developed from sword techniques, but we're always told the empty hand is primary. Weapons are whatever you find available and use them with the same basic movements as with the empty hand. Again, I doubt there will ever be a definitive answer as to what came first, other than tooth, nail, stick, rock. I'm only just starting to be introduced to sword training, however...

 

Di just as it is correct to say Dao for Tao in Chinese, showing a clear connection between the cultures of China and Okinawa through language. 


In common parlance the terms Ti/Te/di are used inter changeably by most people in the west, in all probability on the basis of the writings of Mark Bishop. I think you are right that he did not intend for the term Ti to be muddled with Ki, but his own ti was Shiatsu related and so went the way that Mike Powell is talking about. 


I am sure that even if a standardization of Motobu Udun di terms did take place that discussions will still carry on using these other terms when discussing Ti/Te/di more generally or whatever it is that people think they mean. Take the Wade Giles and Pin Yin systems for Romanizing the Chinese language, you will end up with slightly different phonetics with the same meanings across two systems.


Anyway, I posted some of the Bugeikan Ti/Te/di Demo's on Youtube recently for purposes of comparison and comment. I would be especially interested in any comments as to how these compare to Motobu Udun Di that people have learnt.


Di Kihon combined with some Karate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhHlaqhHlU video unavaiable


Tuidi/grappling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KjIU3JIS8M video unavaiable 


Tuidi 2 against 1 grappling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsZVLzCCgrA video unavaiable


Regards


Chris Norman

 

I'm thrilled to see these video's, thank you!

I notice a couple of differences from what I am being taught (at Seidokan, Okinawa). 


1. The use of weight in these video's seems to be employed by leaning into the technique (bending at the waist). We are taught to step into the technique or to pivot 180 degrees to generate pushing type of force. We are not to generate any force from our upper body strength.


2. The other most noticeable difference is the footwork (which influences that mentioned above). We are vigorously corrected if we fail to use what they call "mai", stepping into the technique with the same side foot and hand. As we step, we are to protect our groin by twisting the hips and crossing the knee of the foot coming forward in front of the other knee to cover. We do this when we punch or when we throw a maegeri (the only kick that we use). We are to use a very light touch with the hands, not a firm grab. So, any torque generating action must come from our body's movements rather than our hand or arm movements.


3. Another related difference is the general attitude and posture while waiting for the attack. We are taught not to kamae - no hopping, no excitement, no holding the hands up in readiness. More like the calm walking that Uehara Sensei demonstrates in his video's that seems to baffle or be underestimated by so many who view them!


 

Rascal, 

Thank you for your comments. 


1. I agree that there does as you say seem to be a lot of leaning into the techniques with the upper body in these grappling scenarios, something that is clearly not present in all of the available footage of Uehara Sensei and his students. 


2. I was of the impression that the footwork between Motobu Udun di and Bugeikan di was very different, whilst some of the Kihon seems to demonstrate lead leg and lead hand this does not seem to be present in the grappling aspects shown in these videos. 


As regards the light touch aspect

In the book Shindoryu yumemaboroshi no jutsu which is about Seitoku Higa, which has sometimes been amusingly translated as 'The Incredible techniques of Shinto Ryu Jutsu of Seitoku Higa' the writer apparently talks about in the beginning about the “light” touch of Seitoku Higa when doing techniques. Higa said when coming in contact with the opponent attacking arm, you should not push, pull or grip the arm. Instead, you should “ride” (guide) the opponent’s movement. He seems to be implying that one should not give any energy (force/strength) to the opponent that he can use (yield to and reverse). Higa here seems to be talking about the very light touch, like what you are referring to here, but which is missing from this material I have posted. 


3. There is clearly a very specific dynamic in terms of the Bugeikan material shown in these videos which differs greatly from what is available in terms of Motobu Udun di material. As you say the hands are held up, there is also the hopping type movement which seems to characterize a lot of the early Bugeikan material.


Given that Seitoku Higa has been mentioned in this thread a few times and that there are some clear differences between the di of the Bugeikan which comes from one source and Motobu Udun di of Seikichi Uehara,which Seitoku Higa also trained in, I have posted a couple of clips of Seitoku Higa doing some demonstrations. 


What I would like to determine here is whether or not these clips of Seitoku Higa show a high level of performance of what can recognizably be called Motobu Udun di or something else.


The clips:

The first of these shows the use of empty hand against Naginata:   NK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOukiIAnxSg   video unavaiable


The second shows firstly the way the sword has been used in this school, including the footwork, this is followed by empty hand against sword and can be found here: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCL6-euwYVM video unavaiable


as regards this last clip, I would be specifically interested to know if the solo sword work done at the beginning is the same as in Motobu Ryu Udun di that people have experienced. 


As regards the Mark Bishop and Te/Ti/Ki thing, in his second book Zen Kobudo: Mysteries of Okinawan Weaponry and Te (and Te is the spelling used throughout), he states on page 144 the following: a large part of the training nowadays is dance "to noursih the secret principles of Ki (intrinsic energy) which includes the Ki of heaven and earth in a martial context" He is of course speaking about the Bugeikan here and the development of what is called Seido there would seem to bear this out. 


Regards

Chris Norman

Karate seminar at One Heart Dojo with Bill Pogue and Andy Sloan.

 



Isshinryu Karate Seminar  =  Bill Plogue

Great Issshinryu History

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5cuspiWzQQ

Towards the end of the seminar Andy Sloan took over and talked about Isshinryu history.

 


Andy Sloane - Self-Defense Reel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJ_6T7apJc 




 

 


Monday, March 25, 2024

Movement of Seiunchin Kata in one lineage over time

Here are versions passed down through the Lewis, Tom Sensei lineage.  

Tom Lewis>Charles Murray>Victor Smith?>>>

I was originally taught Seiunchin kata by Dennis Lockwood, however almost immediately Lewis Sensei took over teaching another version to a Yellow Belt Demo team for an upcoming demonstration in Salisbury.

The team was so drilled intensely on Seiunchin that became the version I followed for the rest of my life. 

When I began training with Charles Murray, he pointed out differences on how we performed the kata. He told me to keep my kata I studied under Sensei as I had been taught, and for my other kata to be learned I should follow his way. 

I did my best to do that for the rest of my life, abet with some changes as age caught up with me.



Tom Lewis pre-1970

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0hzko5iadU



Charles Murray 1980

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohJ9Zq_L9EI



Young Lee 1989

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq0KS5EaBwo



Youth team 1989 + aiikido 1-6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI6unwsWEVY



Young Lee 1991

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aupXGh3Q8c



John O'Halloran 1996

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSYmQZao_Ro



Youth Brown Belts 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqgyuLv6-bE



Victor Michael and Dad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ekqGQl4ijU



Devin 1998

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk0yeDO_KMA



Group 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxj8pRuxrYo



Group 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avfa6Bn-nWo



Group 2012 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxj8pRuxrYo



Then my disabilities strike, but no reason not to work as I can. This continues to this day.

Victor 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUCu3o_Icno



Victor 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5lU9hRq9A








Seiunchin Kata: Gojuryu vs. Isshinryu


Joe Swift wrote this in 2000. I have never seen a more comprehensive analysis of this kata.



From: "Joe Swift" <joe_333@...> 

Date: Fri Sep 1, 2000  12:46 am


I. Historical Premise


Before I begin, let us think on this question: What is Seiunchin?

Where did it come from and what does its name mean? Unfortunately, the answers seem to be lost to time. However, there are several theories as to the meaning and origins of Seiunchin.


First of all, the "established" history in the Gojuryu circles is that Seiunchin was one of the kata that Higashionna Kanryo brought back from his studies in China with Ru Ru Ko, and was passed down to Miyagi Chojun, who incorporated it into his modern ryuha of Gojuryu.


However, although there is opposition to the idea, research in Fuzhou has turned up the identity of Xie Zhongzhang (Founder of Whooping Crane Quanfa) as the most likely candidate for the true identity of Ru Ru Ko. Please see McCarthy Sensei's Bubishi translation for further details on this. For the purposes of this essay, I would like to follow this theory.


We can see that Seiunchin does not exist in the syllabus of Xie's quanfa. This does not mean that he did not know it, however, and the Nakaima family tradition (Ryueiryu) includes a Seiunchin kata, and the founder of the Ryuei school Nakaima Kenri (Norisato) is said to have studied with a certain Ru Ru Ko in Fuzhou.


However, another possibility is that the kata was not taught by Higashionna, but incorporated by Miyagi himself, based upon his further personal studies in both Okinawa and China. There is some evidence that Higashionna was in China for only about three years, rather than the previously thought decade or more. Tokashiki Iken Sensei of the Gohaku-kai in Okinawa has published that the record of Higashionna's return to Ryukyu from Fuzhou survives to this day, and is dated September 1877.


So, this means that Higashionna would not have had that long of a time to establish "mastery" in Xie's quanfa. In fact, wasn't there an old saying, about "three-year sanchin" or something like that, in Fujian?


So, IF Higashionna was in Fuzhou for only three years, this means he could have learned the basics, and perhaps some Happoren from Xie? So, what did he teach upon his return to Okinawa?


Well, as it has been pretty well established that Higashionna's first teacher was Aragaki Seisho, who later left him in the care of Kogusuku (Kojo) Taite. We know from McCarthy Sensei's works that a record of a demonstration featuring Aragaki and his students exists from 1867. In this record, the kata "13" (Seisan) and "108" (Pechurin/Suparinpei) were being practiced in Kuninda well before Higashionna went to China.


I think that it is probably safe to extrapolate that Sanchin, and even Sanseiru were also there. Sanseiru, especially, because of the idiosyncrasies that closely relate it to both Seisan and Suparinpei.

So, I speculate that Higashionna taught Seisan, Sanseiru and Pechurin/Suparinpei along with the fundamental exercise Sanchin, all of which I believe he learned in Okinawa under Aragaki and/or Kogusuku.


So, back to Seiunchin, speaking with my good friend and esteemed colleague Mr. Mario McKenna, along with our mentor Murakami Katsumi Sensei earlier this year in Fukuoka, Murakami Sensei said that he believed Seiunchin to have been practiced in Okinawa for a long time, although not necessarily by Higashionna.


However, before my Goju brethren get mad at me, please rest assured that I am in no way trying to imply that because Seiunchin may have been introduced to Goju by Miyagi, and not directly from Ru Ru Ko to Higashionna, in any way in-validates Seiunchin.


II. Etymology


Seiunchin is known among various Okinawan and Japanese styles under several slightly different pronunciations: Seiunchin, Seienchin, Seiyunchin, Seiinchin, etc. Many prefer to write the kata name in katakana (one of the phonetic syllabaries of Japan), while some have assigned kanji (Sino-Japanese ideograms) to it.


Before going into a kanji-by-kanji breakdown of these, please look here to see the kanji variations that I will be referring to in the text:


http://page.freett.com/dojo/Seiunchin_Etymology.jpg  No longer there


The first on the list is the term "control pull fight" (a rough breakdown of the kanji meanings). This is used by Isshinryu teacher Uezu Angi, as well as many Gojuryu practitioners, such as Miyazato Eiichi and Higaonna Morio. This seems to give meaning to the kata in terms of the multitude of grappling applications in Seiunchin.


The second, often pronounced Seienchin, is used by some Goju groups and is also the kanji used in Sakagami's big kata encyclopedia (Karatedo Kata Taikan, 1978). The rough kanji-by-kanji meaning is "attack far suppress."


The third was proposed by Otsuka Tadahiko, the noted Japanese Bubishi scholar and Gojuryu instructor. Basing much of his research on his vast Taiji experience, it would seem that this is an attempt to give meaning in terms of energy development, although I would not presume to speak for Otsuka Sensei. The rough breakdown is "follow move power."


Last on the list, is the kanji used by Kinjo Akio, the noted Okinawan karate/quanfa researcher. Roughly broken down as "blue hawk fight," Kinjo based his deductions on some movements in the kata that seem tomimic the hawk as it does battle. He states in his 1999 book, that the Fujian pronunciation of these kanji would be Chai-In-Chin


III. Isshinryu vs. Gojuryu


Now, moving onto the question. First of all, I think it may be prudent to first establish what actually differs between the two versions of the kata in the opening sequence, other than the "physical idiosyncrasies" or "signature characteristics" (i.e. vertical fist and forearm muscle/double-bone blocks) that characterize Isshinryu.


However, before we can do this, it must be said that just as there are several "ways" of doing the Goju version, based upon different students of Miyagi Chojun (e.g. Yagi Meitoku, Miyazato Eiichi, Higa Seko, et al), so too is it with Isshinryu. There are differences in the way the first-generation students of Shimabuku Shinkichi (Tatsuo) teach the kata (Uezu Angi, Shimabuku Kichiro, A. J. Advincula, Shimabuku Shinsho, etc.). Therefore, I shall try and keep this as generic as possible.


IV. Differences in Seiunchin Performance: Opening three sequences:


Gojuryu (GR) uses shiko-dachi on the 45 degree angle, and uses scooping type maneuvers before the double down block, sukui-uke, kake-uke and nukite.


Isshinryu (IR) uses shiko-dachi on a straight line enbusen, and uses double ridge-hand blocks, before the double down block, then another ridge-hand block, kake-uke, nukite.


The other differences in the kata revolve around angle of direction on the enbusen, steps forward instead of backward and vice versa, and the like. One other difference shall be discussed a bit later, though.


V. Shimabuku Shinkichi's "Innovations"


However, back to the point at "hand" so to speak . Why did Shimabuku change this section, and what are the dynamics behind such change? Was he trying to bring out a new answer, or did he just forget and merely do the best he could with what he had? Was he breaking from tradition, or was he building a new one, away from the old?


Unfortunately, Shimabuku did not leave any written records of what he was trying to accomplish, and since he is no longer with us, we cannot ask him. However, in defense of him, I personally do not buy the "he simply forgot and never fixed it" theory, simply because when he was active, he was sure to have been surrounded by Goju people, whom he could have seen at demonstrations and simply re-adjusted the angles and the enbusen.


As to the other theories, my good friend and senior in the "Ways" Mr. Victor Smith delves into the dynamics of change and how the environment may have affected Shimabuku's thinking, in his excellent article "The Complete Shimabuku Tatsuo" found at the URL below. I encourage anyone interested to have a gander.

FightingArts.com - The Complete Tatsuo Shimabuku


VI. Different Expressions of Common Principles


However, just because the kata differs in physical performance, does not mean that the application is necessarily different, especially if we take that kata works off of principles, rather than specific technique. For example, lower/higher stances, fast or slow movements, etc. are naught but personal quirks in the kata performance, and do not affect the application of those same movements.


In my current understanding of this series, I see two distinct principles, the first being the open hands coming up and then closing into fists on their way back down (negotiating a wrist grab with a release/throw), and the other, being the kake-uke/nukite combination (exploiting the opponent by bending his arm into a "hammer lock" and striking his torso with the edge of the hand). Another expression might be the Bubishi-ish technique "General Holds a Giant Sealotherwise known as the "Chinese Mask" (gotta love the name!).


Of course, I am ALWAYS willing to change my understanding should the seniors on the list share their understandings of these techniques.


VII. One Last Tidbit


One other "change" that Shimabuku had allegedly made to Seiunchin, was to take out one whole section of the kata, in which the performer slides back into a neko-ashi-dachi, and performs an elbow technique to both the front and the back. In the modern Goju versions of the kata, this series is performed twice, whereas in Isshinryu, it is only done once.


Upon first glance, it would seem that Shimabuku had deleted. However, recently a friend sent me a private translation of Mabuni Kenwa's 1934 book on Sanchin and Seienchin. Working from Tokitsu Kenji's French translation, it seems that Mabuni also had this sequence only once, and in the same portion of the kata that Shimabuku did. This can mean several things, but what if this was an older way to perform the kata, with the other repetition of this sequence later added in for whatever reason? It would make sense, as Mabuni is known to have practiced extensively with Miyagi after Higashionna's death, and that Shimabuku was studying with Miyagi in the mid 1920s.

(I was the individual that translated that book from a French edition for Joe-san)


VIII. In Conclusion Still More Avenues to Explore


On a more personal note, I have secured an introduction to Mr. Tokumura Kensho, one of Shimabuku Tatsuo's early Okinawan students, who has switched to studying Gojuryu under the late Miyazato Eiichi after Shimabuku's death. If things go well, I will hopefully be meeting with Tokumura Sensei later this year, and you can bet that one of the first questions I will be asking will be on any insights he may have into this change.


Sorry for the very long post, and thanks for reading all the way to the end.


Best Regards,


Joe Swift

Kanazawa, Japan


Sunday, March 24, 2024

Advanced Skill Drills of Triatan Sutrisno family Shotokan

 Note I had named my program Bushi No Te Isshinryu well prior to my beginning training with Tristan Sutrisno (I got the idea from some of Ginchin Funakoshi's writings.) A bit after I began training with Tristan he decided to form a group with other martial artists to have occasional camps and training sessions to share their arts. He named that organization Bushi No Te, which was a coincidence for my use of the term.


As Sutrisno students advanced towards Shodan he had a series of drill which were complex to execute, to develop advanced skills. I always found them unique to what other programs used as far as I could see.


Today I took a trip back in time to the early 1990’s and a clinic Tristan Sutrisno held for my students in Derry.  It’s really eerie how much it was like a personal lesson today.


Tristan was first presenting the basis of his advanced karate movement execution. In his system about 3rd dan there are fundamental changes made to execution of technique for increased speed, along with many other changes such as changing to the old-style fist and reverse breathing (inhaling while striking and exhaling in the reverse order from beginning study).


For this clinic he focused on using kata Taikyoku ShoDan – the basic ‘H’ pattern form.


The essential technique principle behind these drills is to eliminate chambering before technique execution. 


He was having our group use Isshinryu technique, not trying to confuse things using Shotokan style technique execution.


[note: while Tristan was really trying to explain where advanced training in his system would begin, the Bushi No Te experience did not follow that path for many reasons. The drills he presented, however, are good ones if the group is advanced to the point where they fit training needs.}


The drills stand by themselves, but the principles that they are being used to study are also very interesting.


Tristan also follows a very old principle of his father’s and teaches using the technique of no technique. He shows a technique once or two times, and then corrects what the student is doing to be more efficient but does not explain what they’re doing isn’t the same as what he shows. I note frequently I’m trying to point this out to the group. Of course it doesn’t work.


The basic rule for a clinic attendee is to first really look at what the feet are doing. If you can get your feet to the same place that is being demonstrated, the rest of the technique tends to flow along. Most people, however, focus on the hands because the hand techniques are closer to their eyes, and as a result different stepping ensues.


So, while teaching (and often more to me than the others) he’s also testing everyone all the time, each and every time. He works to make what they do effective but is not holding anyone’s hands to make sure they got what he was showing.


A challenging experience.

 

The beginning study advanced drills:


 


1. The beginning low block does not start with the block beside the ear, instead the hands just explode into the completed block position.  The initial use of these blocks was to deflect an attack and this was just initial training, not the full range of what the system of training would do.


This was coupled with a knee release before moving 90 degrees to the side. This lowers the center so your more quickly moving to the blocking position without taking the time to lower the body as you do so.


Then with the punch there is no pull back from the strike, more akin to a thrust.


Turn left with left low block

step with right foot to right punch

Turn 180 to right with a right low block

step with left foot to left punch

turn 90 to left with left low block

step with right and right punch

step with left and left punch

Step with right and right punch

Turn 90 degrees to the left with left low block

Step with right foot to right punch

Turn 180 to right with a right low block

Step with left foot to left punch

turn 90 to left with left low block

step with right and right punch

step with left and left punch

Step with right and right punch

Turn 90 degrees to the left with left low block

Step with right foot to right punch

Turn 180 to right with a right low block

Step with left foot to left punch


The purpose of this drill is to explode into the flow blocks and  the strikes.


2. Next he showed his 2nd technique, turning to the left with a left back stance (not in Isshinryu and for those who don’t practice it, it takes some time to get used to) and a left open knife hand strike to the side.


The drill then continued using the ‘H’ pattern kata but it was left back stance and left outside knife hand strike and then step through with right punch



3. Next he demonstrated turning into a front stance with a vertical backfist appearing middle block (again for faster execution than blocking across the body).


This drill continued with the ‘H’ pattern form but used a side kick to the front.


turn 90 degrees to the left into front stance with the vertical backfist side block, 

chamber the leg as for a front kick as you raise both hands in a kicking chamber, pivot on the ball of the left foot and throw a side kick to the front, then land in front stance

** continue the “H” pattern kata using that side block and the side kick to the front **


Principle of kicking to the front, Sutrisno style. 


Tristan used the rest of the basics training to focus on his front kicking drills.

All of the chambers begin as if a front kick would follow, but in turn he’d throw the front kick, the side kick, the roundhouse kick and the back kick to the front with the correct pivot, and then land in a front stance.


His kicking technique was to mask what kick was coming with the initial chamber as well as mask which type of kick was landing.


These “H” pattern drills are  a great kicking workout. This is not kicking for the beginner, but for those wanting to develop one set of advanced kicking skills.


4. The next technique series was shifting 90 degrees to the left in a back stance with an outer knife hand block with the left (right hand in chamber). This was followed by chambering the knee as both hands form kicking chamber, and then pivoting to throw a back kick (striking with the heel) to the front. Finishing by landing in front stance.

 

5. Turning into a left front stance with an exploding left high block, then shifting into right chamber  and finishing with a right roundhouse kick to the front and landing in front stance.


6. Of course this wasn’t enough of a workout, so Tristan made it much more interesting by adding jump front kicks.


Turn 90 to the left with a left front stance and a left low block

shift the left foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Left front jump kick followed by a right front jump kick

land in a right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 180 to the right with a right front stance and a right low block

shift the right foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Right front jump kick followed by left front jump kick

land in a left front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 90 to the left with a left front stance and a left low block

shift the left foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Left front jump kick followed by a right front jump kick

land in right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Left jump front kick to stomach

Right jump front kick to head (13-14 are a double front kick sequence)

land in right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber.

Turn 270 degrees to the left with a left front stance and a left low block

shift the left foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Left front jump kick followed by a right front jump kick

land in a right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 180 to the right with a right front stance and a right low block

shift the right foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Right front jump kick followed by left front jump kick

land in a left front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 90 to the left with a left front stance and a left low block

shift the left foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Left front jump kick followed by a right front jump kick

land in right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Left jump front kick to stomach

Right jump front kick to head (13-14 are a double front kick sequence)

land in right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber.

Turn 270 degrees to the left with a left front stance and a left low block

shift the left foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Left front jump kick followed by a right front jump kick

land in a right front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 180 to the right with a right front stance and a right low block

shift the right foot back into cat stance as both hands rise for kicking chamber

Right front jump kick followed by left front jump kick

land in a left front stance keeping both hands in kicking chamber

Turn 90 to the left and close the kata.


A very challenging drilling use of the Taikyoku  Kata for the base technique drills.


If you have the courage to attempt these drills I believe you will find the effort challenging. They were used to build advancing skills for his dan students to use later.


A discussion about what Kyan Chotoku taught.

 Hi Victor

 

You say:

 > In the recent story “Karate of Milk, the story of Shozen Sonabe, A student of Choto Kyan” in a recent issue of CFA, Charles Goodin relates the following story: ” he learned the remaining kata in the following order. 

(after spending 3 years on Seisan Kata- Victor):

Nihanchi Shodan, Nidan, Sandan

Ananku Sho (made by Kyan Sensei)

Ananku Dai (mado by Kyan Sendei)

Passai - Gojushiho – Chinto

Kusanku (Kyan Sensei’s version)


Now when we’ve discussed this in the past you told me Kyan Sensei didn’t teach Nihanchi. Was this true to his private students of just those who were public students in the Agricultural School and the Police Station.


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Hmm.. interesting.. no Wansu?


Much has been made (by Seibukan, esp.) of a difference between those taught at Kadena Ag College (ie Nakazato) and those at Kyan sensei's house. This of course is all designed to 'prove' Zenryo was the one true heir of Kyan.. because all his teaching was at the house, of course... :)


I asked Joen sensei about this and he explained he first encountered Kyan sensei (and indeed karate) at a public demonstration at Kadena Coll. in.. er let me think 1937 or 8 I think ..attended, according to him, by other well-known seniors and also karate people from the mainland. He said he was unsure of exactly who these folks (and never got to find out) because at the time it was his first experience, and he didn’t know who was supposed to be who or where they came from. He was very interested in what he saw and shortly after this he had the opportunity to join Kyan sensei's (first?) group class. At first there were many attendees, but numbers quickly dwindled down to a handful. According to him the remaining few boys were also offered the opportunity to visit Kyan sensei and train at his house. So yes he HAD started at the College but ALSO trained at the house, and indeed implied because he had the opportunity and not much else to do he was hence there more than anyone. He alluded to this in the context of his explanation of why he had Tokumine no kun from Kyan yet Zenryo didn't. (Nakazato passed it to the Seibukan line) 


Anyway, at this time or around this time he also lived only a few houses away from Kyan sensei in the village, renting a house that belonged to Kyan sensei's wife (or perhaps a first wife from before he went to Taiwan, I cant remember) An aside here is that I think I'm right in saying property passed through the female line and I have some recollection of the divorce having something to do with avoiding personal debt he had accumulated as a ruse to protect the property.. 


I digress...  


So, when asked about the supposed difference between school and house student he kind of scoffed and said he trained at Kyan sensei's house "every day" and apart from the lads from school who were also there it was while training at the house where he met the others, Tatsuo, Zenryo, and Okuhara Bunei, who was a youth slightly older than himself. They trained in the same methods. 


Now, to Naifanchi: Nakazato did not witness Kyan performing or teaching Naifanchi at any time between him starting training in the Spring of 38 till Nakazato was drafted in (memory don't fail me!) Feb (I think) 1944.  I don't have my notes but I'm sure he said the last time he'd seen Kyan was in the December 1943. 


Now, Zenryo supposedly was also there "10 years" - though I suspect it was less, and certainly not constantly because as Nakazato said of Zenryo "actually he wasn't there all that much, he was always so busy with his business(es)".  Regardless of the exact duration (I think Zenryo left Kyan's company earlier, perhaps in late 41 to become (depending on accounts either an aircraft spotter or working in a munitions (?) factory) yet despite *all* this time, HE ALSO didn't get any naifanchi from Kyan either, or my understanding was that Tatsuo's likely came some way via Motobu. None of *them* were taught it by Kyan regardless of where. 


As you probably know, later, Zenryo got his from Chozo Nakama (Chibana line) and Nakazato eventually adopted one he introduced via a student of his called Ishii, who came in from somewhere else and brought with him a Naifanchi believed at the time to be an authentic Shuri te kata. Nakazato adopted it, but subsequently questions about its lineage/authenticy were raised and it was eventually dropped in favor of a different naifanchi (one they still do) from an at least verifiable provenance via the Matsumura Orthodox Line... In other words, all these 3 main students and their schools all have a different naifanchi. because none of them knew of it being taught either at the college or the house during their era. 


Did Kyan ever have one? Nakazatio said YES, he would have, but he knew of nobody that would or could have had it, as even back in the 50s no Kyan version had survived to any knowledge on Okinawa.


Key: I asked Nakazato in that case WHY he felt the need to have a naifanchi, especially one not taught by Kyan, and he said the reason was he felt it was a useful kata (he wanted to see mine, - which was Nakamas I'd got from Zenpo sensei) and while he/they/none of them knew of ANY authentic transmitted naifanchi via Kyan he said he adopted one because it was "INCONCEIVABLE" that at some stage Kyan hadn't had one/practiced one. 


So he said yes Kyan WOULD HAVE had a naifanchi at some stage, but (my logic) apparently it wasn't being taught by the early-mid 30s, as despite Joen sensei being president of this that and the other and actively seeking a Kyan naifanchi, he/they with their combined experience didn't know anyone who had it or even the name of anyone specific who had *ever* had it. 


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>Also, what is Ananku Dai? I learned a version in the Shimabukuro Ezio lineage, with both vertical and twisting strikes and the movements in a somewhat different order, might this be dai or Ezio’s creation?

 

I don't know, Victor. sorry. I know Nagamine's Ananku appeared different to Shorinnji/Seibukan's but never sure where Nagamines came from. Nakazato didn’t subscribe to the view that Kyan had invented Ananku himself  (although it actually appears more as a kind of  "Seisan sho" to me) JN said he was told by kyan he'd got it from someone in Taiwan. Who knows maybe it WAS a Seisan or seisan sho that had evolved or had been edited in Taiwan. I don't know and neither did JN.   

 

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cheers then victor

love Harry

 



Hi Harry,


I must thank you for your responses to my questions.  You have such an understanding of your teachers training. I understand you don’t wish this to be more public because of Dan Smith’s pressures, but I really feel Nakazato’s teachings are closer to what Kyan offered than the Seibukan.  


Of course, I’m prejudiced because Nakazato’s closer to Isshinryu than others too.

You may find this interesting where Itoman in his “The Study of China Hand Techniques” about Touidi writes “Following, breaking and transcending involve a student first copying the form of his teacher and restraining himself from making any personal changes to it. Next, he breaks or separates his practice from that of his teacher trying to exceed him. Finally, he transcends his teacher’s instruction and finds his own unique military art. ‘ 


I believe this describes what Tatsuo did formatting his Isshinryu.  I wish we had access to the video (closed from us) of how Tatsuo was teaching in his 1964 visit to the states where he was using the turning fist, to see how similar it was to your teachers teachings. Eventually he returned to the vertical strike. But the host teacher who made the video’s left training years later and wouldn’t share them with his own students. I had one of them join my program a decade or so age, for a year or so, and it was interesting to watch his kata with turning strikes.


Itoman also had something interesting to share about kata, though his book wasn't a kata book.


P 68 Toudi Kata


..Two of the basic forms are sanshin (repeated steps) and sanchin (repeated hands). The former uses many leg techniques while the latter uses many hand techniques. There are three versions of sanshin kata and three versions of sanchin kata totaling six versions.


I can’t wait till someone starts showing sanchin soon now the book is published. Heh heh heh


So, we learn not to take the written stories to seriously. BTW I didn’t feel that Sunbe article was about building up Seibukan, just about Kyan’s teachings. There were many holes in its stories. IMO.


Thank you fo being you I wish we could meet, but with my Myasthenia Gravis slowing me down that is likely not possible.


Victor


 

Friday, March 22, 2024

Shimabnku KUMITE - Sherman Harrill - Part 2

 

Description of Sherman demonstrations by Victor Smith. All errors are my own.


2.     Defenses against strikes




 a.    Outside block, punch inside.

                 Attacker right foot forward, right hand punch.

                 Defender steps back, right foot back side block, reverse punch to the solar plexus.


This is a case as you step back with your right foot, you left arm uses a dragging Side block (interior line of defense) , where you block out, and pull the blocking hand back to the waist to draw the opponent forward with the ‘blocking’ effect, creating the opening for the standing fist knuckle reverse punch to the solar plexus.


Inside block, punch side.

Attacker right foot forward, right hand punch.

Defender steps back right foot, inside block, reverse punch to the ribs.


In this case as you step back with your right, you strike inside with your blocking arm (external line of defense), deflecting their strike away creating an opening for a standing reverse punch to their ribs.