Friday, November 8, 2024

When I was asked to give my opinion on Karo Ong

 


Dante Da!

Dante  Robert,

The sun has risen, however a few showers remain around. The weekend is supposed to be nice, I trust it remains well for you.

To begin after a long search of that Facebook account, it is mostly a friendly sharing site, not a great deal of martial information discussed. There are a few small other postings by Ong Sensei.


Aragaki Seisan  

http://youtu.be/XzNQb1VtdDY


The picture depicts his ethics...

In my books, ethics comes first, before the quality of one's art. I know many excellent technicians in the martial arts world, but I would not give a rat's a*s to associated them. As one of my great friend said: "If he can be brought, you can be sold."

BTW, and since the question is raised, the Kata by his movements is mediocre at best..


Seikichi Toguchi Seipai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBhnEOZDFI




Hey, I love the guy... He is entertaining... He can replace Charlie Chaplain and Buster Keaton...

Miyagi’s son  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7All1dl1BAg 



Kayo Ong Not artistically appeasing (sloppy), but he retains much of the correct emphasis (atemi) and transitional movements (pattern) of the Kata with no fanfare!!! It has been a long while that I have seen the original (correct) movements... As Roy said,it is what Toguchi taught and Toguchi was personally/endowed Seipai Kata by Grand Master Chojun Miyagi amongst the other disciples and Yagi with Peichurin and ... The rest for another time....

Paul Enfield 

http://youtu.be/vRfa0kE1bxM



 
Sam Walker Jared, Most senior Okinawans slow down the kata for public demonstrations so people w/o training can see some of what's going on. That being said, even done slowly, there are many small movements going on that even trained people often miss because they are too busy looking at just the pattern and gross movements.

 

Toguchi's video is a good example of a ton of small details that can easily be missed.


I imagine these are individuals he knows and feels comfortable around. I had heard of him decades ago but hadn’t seen much of his stuff. There does not appear to be anything on YouTube of him. His own facebook account seems to focus on his pet dog.

Much of the discussion seems to reference training in some Chinese arts, mostly dealing with Chi Kung/ As the world moves on most would not understand these references. I don’t see anyone marketing or selling this. Too esoteric.

My own humble understanding of energy point alignment (shown to me after 15 years of tai chi experience) makes it possible for me to understand there points about ‘shime’ While there are few who train this way because of the personal nature of the training. I can understand how this was changed by others.

This speaks to the primary issue of the older ways of karate  IMO.

I expect it began to change teaching classes of students. Even those who are University students. The changes were based on less time. 4 years and out for most. Those organizations took the term ‘traditional’ for their own use. That left the earlier traditions outside of the term.


The most important part was the one on one instructor-student relationship. And as modern times moved in, less with the time commitment for older training.

On the whole this isn’t good or bad< IMO. However the contemporary use of the term Traditional is more than a bit a peversion.

Although I seek understanding I know I will not recreate those trainings. And, I feel while they are interesting, I am not sure they are the only answer. I believe there are many possible answers. And much fraud too.

As an Isshinryu stylist, my real concern is what my students might do in the future. There is no doubt as abilities increase over decades of work, their art changes with their developing abilities.


I really haven’t had the chance to associate with others in Isshinryu on a personal level. My program is a mixture of the Isshinryu I learned and other experiences. On a functional level Isshinryu was designed for the basic level. The founder had no chance to take his American student’s further. And while Associations formed,  they fell to the same problems that exist. Distances too great. Untrained leaders, Succession issues.

I understand Ong’s sarcasm, We have the same in Isshinryu, the one American with the most time in Okinawa, also disdains most others in the art, because they don’t recognize he is always right. He does have a lot ot technique, knowledge, but he has taught his students to hate. Without going in detail, I have great moral issues with this.

Most properly Isshinryu is mostly an art that was developed on Okinawa and transplanted around the world into many dimensions. Perhaps bad, perhaps good.

But most really traditional only in the sense of ancestery.

Shimabuku Tatsuo had another side to him, he first studied martial arts from this uncle on his mother's side Ganeku. Ganeku also taught the young Shimabuku to be a sanjinsoo, a practitioner who engages in fortunetelling, divining, and geomancy and deriving their knowledge from books rather than from the supernatural. The I Ching and kuyumi or lunar almanac besides other books on occult lore are some of the books the young Tatsuo would have to learn. These ancient books would have been written in kanji and he would have to learn how to read the Chinese characters.


 
I have seen videos of his sons copies of his I Ching books. He was known in the community for his abilities. Personally he may have known where this was going.

It is difficult to speak further as I have no link to the older practices. My tai chi has a great deal of older documentation which still is beyond my abilities. It is said a great book can detail 50 years of experience, but it still takes 50 years to understand it. In my experience it takes me at least 5 years to begin to understand any books value. But what do I know.

I remain very grateful for our discussions which help clarify many things.

I realize my blog keeps you busy. I have decades of writings I with to preserve, as much as many I won’t share publicly.

I hope this answers some of your questions. May you find harmony this weekend.

Victor Smith

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