Patrick McCarthy and George Donahue have a dialogue on the old CD - Part 1

 

Back in 1997 I was new to the internet and the CyberDojo. Almost immediately I found a lengthy dialogue between  Patrick McCarthy and George Donahue.

Patrick was a well known competitor, practitioner and author on his arts. He knew George as his book editor at Tuttle, but not as a martial artist.

George had been raised in Japan, was on an old Samuri tv series as a youth playing the younger version of the samurai for flashbacks when he learned vartious lessons. He later trained in karate on Okinawa. Established a Kashiba Juku group in the states and eventually became the martial arts editor  for Tuttle Publications.

Knowing that Patrick was in a somewhat heated discussion on the CD when George weighed in. Beginning what would be a lengthy discussions of an extremely erudite level of discourse. I do not know of another discussion of similar character. A discussion that does not exist  today.

This will be challenging but well worth the effort.

Because of it's length I am breaking it into several parts.
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From Digest 1363  Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:07:04 CDT

Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:50:28 +1000
From: "Patrick McCarthy" <Bujin@bigpond.com>
To: <karate@raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Robert Agar-Hutton's request about titles; Hanshi, Kyoshi, Renshi etc.
Message-ID: <01013781233999@onaustralia.com.au>

Mr. Agar-Hutton, a pleasure to correspond with you once again. The titles
you mentioned were originally established in pre-war Japan by the nation's
sole organization responsible for overseeing Martial Arts... The Dai Nippon
Butokukai. In the same way that rank is obtained, so too was (and still
are) guidelines, specific outcomes and standard assessment criteria
necessary to obtain such titles.

It is truly sad that such a mockery is often made of them due to their
indiscriminate use by unscrupulous people who are not part of the DNBK and
have not met their guidelines. To the best of my knowledge no other
organization was ever licensed by the Japanese government to issue such
titles. If, however, there has been, I would like to see the letter from
the government authorizing it, rather than someone telling me that so and
so "told me so."

If you (or anyone) are interested better understanding such history, may I
then recommend contacting the International Ryukyu Karate Research Society
c/o POB 420 Virginia, Brisbane 4014 Australia to purchase the Analysis of
the Dai Nippon Butokukai. We are a information-based fraternity which deals
with the history and evolution of Karatedo.

Look forward to meeting you during my forthcoming trip to the UK.

Regards

Patrick McCarthy
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From Digest 1364 Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:06:56 CDT

Date: 18 Jul 97 16:27:29
From: gdonahue@randomhouse.com
To: karate@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Hanshi, Kyoshi, Renshi
Message-ID: <199707182026.AA20278@interlock.randomhouse.com>

In answer to Robert Agar-Hutton's query of about titles, Patrick McCarthy wrote:

> The titles you mentioned were originally established in pre-war
> Japan by the nation's sole organization responsible for
> overseeing Martial Arts... The Dai Nippon Butokukai. In the same
> way that rank is obtained, so too was (and still are) guidelines,
> specific outcomes and standard assessment criteria necessary
> to obtain such titles.
>
> It is truly sad that such a mockery is often made of them due to
> their indiscriminate use by unscrupulous people who are not part
> of the DNBK and have not met their guidelines. To the best of my
> knowledge no other organization was ever licensed by the
> Japanese government to issue such titles. If, however, there has
> been, I would like to see the letter from the government authorizing
> it, rather than someone telling me that so and so "told me so."
<cut>

I agree with Mr. McCarthy that indiscriminate use of undeserved titles is
unfortunate.

However, I don't agree that the Dai Nippon Butokukai has any authority for "overseeing" martial arts.  This organization, as most, was political from the  start.  It governed only its members, and it had no enforcement authority.  It never seriously represented Okinawan martial arts or martial artists unless the Okinawan arts or artists made tremendous efforts to "fit in" with the prevailing Yamatunchu mentality.  Many of them were unwilling or had no desire to submit their traditional and personal arts to the whims of a quasi-governmental organization.  That didn't in any way invalidate the quality of their arts or detract from the skill of the practitioner.  For most Okinawan martial artists, and many in the rest of Japan, particularly "uchi no bujutsu" lineages (private ryuha that were never opened to the general public), the Dai Nippon Butokukai was almost totally irrelevant.  If it had any relevance at all, it was merely as a body that set examples or standards for voluntary compliance.

Organizations' use of titles are matters solely for the discretion of the organizations themselves.  Ultimately, the government doesn't own the language.  Many organizations are lax or commercial or cynical in their issuance of titles.  Many are not.  As long as no fraud is committed on the general public, it's none of the government's business.  Government (particularly the Japanese government) has generally acted to suppress martial arts that don't conform to the government's political agenda.  Martial artists,
in general and particularly in Okinawa, have often been at the forefront of resistance to government repression.

The proliferation of gaudy titles for martial artists of little real accomplishment is indeed unfortunate, if those things bother you, but it's just a minor irritation.  Far better to have a dozen hanshi operating dojos in your town than to have a government bureaucracy determining standards for what you can learn and teach within your art.


George Donahue (mushi)
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gdonahue@randomhouse.com / gdonahue.kishaba.juku.usa@juno.com
Kishaba Juku of New York City at the Ken Zen Institute of Japanese Martial Arts
and Culture
Okinawa Karate-Do Shorin Ryu Kishaba Juku / Matsubayashi Ryu / Ryukyu Kobujutsu
Nana korobi, ya oki.

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