I often see people using the two names interchangeably. For
example they will call out Pechurin or have it in the title of their video and
then proceed to do the Goju-Ryu Suparinpei. The two names for me are for two
separate kata and are not the same. Pechurin refers to the kata that is
practiced in Toon-Ryu. It is shorter than Goju's Suparinpei and for the parts
that they do share most are done differently. The names also have different
meanings. So why do people keep using the names as if they are the same kata?
Also if Pechurin is what Kanryo taught, where did Suparinpei come from?
Steve Hampsten My teacher, Motoo Yamakura, tells me they mean the
same thing. Pechurin may be an older or Chinese pronunciation but that's simply
my conjecture. Chinen sensei, fwiw, used the word Pechurin when talking about
this kata and he was a goju guy. Curious to see what others have on the
subject. Anyone have kanji on the two names?
Filip Konjokrad The kanji are in fact different. 百歩連 for pechurin 一百零八 or 壱百零八 for Suparinpei
depending on whose lineage you follow.
Shihan Dean Chapman I
have always wondered this? Never seen the Toonryu Kata.
Roy Kamen Suparenpei and
Pechurin (Pechulen) are the same kata. It has changed over the years with more
difficult pieces removed
Filip Konjokrad I've always though that Suparinpei is the result of
Miyagi adding to Higashionna's Pechurin.
Dan Djurdjevic
Filip is correct, I suspect. I have seen tou'on ryu'
bechurin and it is subtly, but
significantly different to goju's suparinpei.
Greg Graham
Pechurin translates to "100 continuous steps" and Suparinpei
translates to "108". I also think Miyagi built on the kata from other
sources.
Dan Djurdjevic
What's interesting about the name is that the characters for suparinpei do
indeed mean 108, but are very rarely used, eg only in formal or legal
documents.
Roy Kamen The Kata has
many ancient elements that touch the spiritual domain. But no one wants to know
about that. The kata is not about fighting people. The foot patterns, hand
positions, transitions, directions, breathing, visualization, emotions... Its
just too far out for most to fully realize or accept. So they make it about
fighting.
Paul Coleman Buddhist numbers.
Mark Tankosich My friend M Mac Kenna is
the one to answer this, I'm guessing...
M Mac Kenna Hi Mark. As I've been told by Kanzaki sensei via Kyoda
Juhatsu, Higaonna never referred to it as suparempei. And when Kanzaki sensei
first saw Goju ryu Suparempei he was struck at their similarity When he asked
Kyoda about this, his usually mild mannered teacher snapped his head off when
he answered, "Higaonna tanmei only ever called it Pechurin!" Why the
two kata? That's a long story. Maybe later I'll chat about it.
Mark Tankosich M Mac Kenna Thanks for responding Mario. You're the go-to guy here, IMHO.
Roy Kamen M Mac Kenna
Good story! Thanks. We do Pechurin in our Dojo. Handed down by Toguchi and
Matayoshi and Kawakami.
Filip Konjokrad M Mac Kenna Would
love to hear more about the two kata if you have the time. You might be one of
the few people who has the definitive answer to this.
Chaji Guy Filip Konjokrad I've not encountered many definitive answers in
Karate, but have heard many, many points of view. Makes life rather
interesting...spice of life...
Filip Konjokrad Chaji Guy What I meant
with my comment is he is more or less the only person outside Japan that has
trained extensively in both Toon-Ryu and Goju-Ryu. He is the most likely person
to have the actual answer. Everything from the rest of us is pure speculation
or conjecture.
Chaji Guy What I'm
getting at is that there may be differing perspectives, and we are left with
the history given to us by our seniors. My teacher's teachers referred to the
kata as Pechurin or Pechulen,, and that is what I'm passing on to my students.
Filip Konjokrad My opinion is that unless you're doing it as is
performed in Toon-Ryu it's not Pechurin....however opinions can change with new
information.
Chaji Guy Somewhere I
have a copy of the original list of kata from the early 70's from when Toguchi
and Kawakami were in NY. I pretty sure it says Pechulen, but could be Pechurin.
Now I'm interested in the kanji...
Roy Kamen Chaji Guy, I don't know if you were around for the
discussions on our board about the futility of translating the kanji. David
Wong gave us quite a lesson on it. What I got from that discussion was that the
meanings of the writings are tied to the time in history, geographical
location, political situation and intent of the individual who wrote it. I hope
I am clear... it was a very long discussion and David Wong went into very
specific detail.
Peter Swallow
Is any kata about fighting? Oyo bunkai, being application of kata is about
fighting.
Roy Kamen Yes, Kata is
primarily an energy management system. It also has built in it a path to
character development, some say "enlightenment". IMHO the only way to
reach the higher spiritual levels is to approach each kata as if it were a life
and death encoun...See More
Dan Antonsen
Came across these old pictures tonight and remembered this post. The pictures
where taken in 1995 and show Dai Sensei Meitoku Yagi explaining about
Suparinpei and Pechurin. He said Pechurin was the older kata and that all
Suparinpei is contained within Pechurin. If you look at the kanji for each you
can see this is also the case. This is what Dai Sensei was pointing out. This
is Dai Sensei's own handwriting also. I don't normally comment but I thought
this was relevant.
Dan Antonsen
Close up picture of the two different names
Tory Ellarson I'm starting to
think that no one has any idea what Peichurin actually means or how it's
written. There's been a few writings suggested so far in this thread.
Linguistically the one on the left makes no sense for either. It has the same
meaning as Suparinpei but it's just the pa pei part. (it's basically saying
"hundred eight" instead of "one hundred and eight")
The one on the right is obviously supposed to be Suparinpei but what is the
first Kanji? is that supposed to be the banking character?
I had heard that Peichurin was "百招連" even then I'm pretty sure it's just someone's
guess. But it works for the sounds and has a meaning in line with traditional
Chinese martial terminology.
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