>Thank you so much.
This is enough information to make a case to me that Shimabuku's methodology in
running his programs wasn't unique but based on shared tradtion from at least
Kyan..
Honestly Victor I think the obvious high regard that
Nakazato holds Tatsuo in would be -apart from his respect for Tatsuo as one who
didn’t see training with younger students of Kyan as something to overly
enforce hierarchy over; "unlike others" (his term) - also
an additional (though not necessarily defining) indication that this
*particular* aspect was one that comformed to the model set by Kyan, which was
(as far as I can see) the model for Nakazato's own teaching method, more than,
say, Zenpo’s.. (though not necessarily Zenryo's).
I think additonally that Nakazato comes from an academic standpoint in that he as a career school teacher would have been particularly conscious of traditional transmission methods and (perhaps might be said to more than some others) base his evaluation on that exactly kind of thing. I also know from talking to him (many times) that Zenpo recognizes the difference in his own (modern) method ("I know some people let it go but cant just sit there and see something yet not correct it") and a different approach - one outlined prior - which wouldnt intervene to such a great extent. ..and that this is done not only out of traditon but that this tradition was based on reasons such as allowing ie that the student find their own level and practice *to that level*, rather than simulate a (possibly higher) level through *over* teaching beyond the abilty or full understanding of that particluar student.
My understanding is that this not only assists the student in allowing their
own understanding and "making their karate their own," but allows the
master teacher (or senior student) to measure that student's progress
immediately, on sight.
all the best
love harry
davis
Hi Victor
>Is this simliar to the methodology of dojo manegement in Other Kyan student
dojo, or were they mostly classes driven by the head instructor.
Thanks for considering I might be able to help, I dont know if I can, but here
goes.
I cant really generalize or know how far the model you describe extended
but can only speak from my own experience and trying to glean what I can, often
in the context of stuff revealed during answers to other questions. What I mean
by this is that quite often I have seen not only in answer to my own questions
but in recordings of others' interviews, the interviewee quite often doesnt
understand the motivation for the western researcher's question
and so gives them an answer they think is what the interviewer is looking
for... often misubnderstanding the intent of the question and hence being very
helpful.. but with the wrong answer!
I think this has led to a good number of misunderstandings we have about the
cultural aspects of karate and how it is/was transmitted. Sorry this is a
long winded way of saying parts of my understanding are keeping my ears
open to the particular bits that interest me (ie teaching methodology, etc) and
in gleaning snippets here and there.So my gleaning is as follows:
What you describe is entirely consistent with the way
Nakazato "teaches". In other words, my experience is he will sit
there and watch, and only intervene if a basic movement is incorrect. This
sounds obvious - that corrections would only be made when a mistake is
made - but I think it goes deeper than that, to not wanting to completely
lead a student, but merely to address things AT THAT CURRENT LEVEL, and that
any progress (apart from help with the current level) is actually at the
student's own initiative or as a result of the student's personal
interpretation. In my limited experience Nakazato has OTHERS demonstrate
(indeed supposedly never did show his own kata very much as example) and it's
from interaction with seniors (and, crucially *observation* of seniors) is how
the student learns, before any intervention by the head instructor.
A snippet to back this up was in Zenpo's dojo, there is still the bench that
Zenryo (of course dead more than 40 years) used to sit on and observe class in
a similar manner. He would therefore "oversee" a training
session.. as compared with Zenpo's method, which would be the evening
classes: a modern western style class work-out. Now, of course this is from a
combination of snippets from Zenpo and Dan, and we must remember that Dan only
caught a few months of sporadic daytime training from Zenryo before his death.
So I dont know if Zenryo always did do this but he did tell me once that Zenryo
never actually said ANYTHING to him (!).. Therefore the vast majority if not
virtually all Dan's training was with Zenpo, this *after* Zenpo had spent
his couple of years or so with Walt Dailey in Pennsylvania and had supposedly
become fascinated with the Shotokan method. It was precisely this very
Shotokan-like method that attracted the Shotokan nidan Dan Smith to train
at the Jagaru dojo in Seibukan in the first place. He told me this was what he
had been looking for and found it to be be pretty much the only place that did
it that way. (assuming here: courtesy of Zenpo)
So what I'm saying is it seems that
Zenryo's method would have been similar to what you are describing
of Tatsuo, and is consistent with what Nakazato does now and - as directly
as I have been able to get it from JN - says Kyan did. Nakazato said Kyan
taught the kata but not much else; no drills etc.. These I believe would have
been "the moves": essentially neutral in intent and performance.. it
was up to the student to develop any training regimen/ weights/makiwara etc.
So, it seems within the Kyan line the
apparent exception is Zenpo, who changed the regimen to a modern systematizing
(and, crucially, standardizing) in line with Japanese
methodology... But my understanding is this was not the
"traditional" way it was taught, but of course we really only are
able to say "I was taught this and my teacher said he was taught
this by xx, and I havent changed it".. so while I would say this
is the way I personally think Kyan also taught and it makes sense to me
personally and it makes all these things fit (like why folks kata is different,
apparently) I cant say for sure everyone else did. One thing i would say
is that before all the methodological changes, it makes sense to me this was
all done in a very traditional master-student way and hence if one eventually
adopted the same role as one moved from student to master one would indeed have
followed the traditional methods.. which sounds like just sitting there
observing, making the odd correction when necessary.. not leading a class in
the way we might now..
well, as they say: my
2c!
cheers!
love harry davis
No comments:
Post a Comment