Making mistakes as a step to learning

 

While I wrote this post in 2018 it is true today as it was then.

Isshin - Concentration the Art: Being an Instructor does not mean mistakes no longer happen.

When it comes to Naifanchi (Nihanchi) kata I have used the kata for training in a variety of different ways

When it comes to Naifanchi (Nihanchi) kata I have used the kata for training in a variety of different ways. The following post on my blog describes them.

 Isshin - Concentration the Art: Naifanchi as I have experienced it.

Mark Radunz on turning the head in kata

 

Romney,

My neck and back are fine. Thanks for asking.

Yes, this is how I was taught. And yes, I'm aware that many believe turning the headfirst is a must, quickly snapping your head around to look toward the next direction you will face.

Questions to consider: Does not the ear listen in all directions? (so is looking 1st truly necessary?) Does not the eye see all sides? (use all your senses) Do you see Shimabuku Sensei doing this (turning his headfirst?) in any of the film of him? Are you truly finished with the person with whom you are currently engaged every time before you turn around, and was he/she in front of you in the first place?

I was not taught kata as a choreographed fight, but rather a collection of movements. This should not be interpreted as not looking first, however. My everything is connected to my center (watch the obi, sensei used to say) Turning to look often incorporates moving out of the way at the same time, something that is not done when simply turning the head and looking first, an act that may cause one to turn their head around in time to take a strike directly in the face.

Thanks for the comments.  Mark Radunz

 

Radunz Sensei -

 

I agree with your statement about the use of ALL senses.  And I can see the point of focusing and training certain senses by inhibiting the use of the others, such as relying on the sense of hearing rather than turning the head to use sight. 

However, I will say it is natural human reflex to turn one's head to see in the direction of an unexpected noise.  Also hearing will only tell me of the direction of the noise.  It will not tell me whether or not the noise is an imminent attack or even what kind of an attack may be approaching (i.e. jodan, chudan, linear, circular, hand, foot, weapon, or number of attackers) nor the speed of approach or the remaining distance from the attacker. I can also understand that the movements of the kata can be translated many different ways and bunkai can be practiced from many different directions depending on the interpretation of the movement.  

This was one of Harrill Sensei's gifts - to see deeper than the obvious, superficial movements in kata. 

But, back to my point about the natural reflex of looking toward a noise, in Isshinryu, we are aught to take the most natural approach.  I believe this would apply to the use of our senses as well.  No matter which direction you are intending the movement of the kata to be applied, in reality your natural reflex would be to look in the direction of the application.  Therefore, wouldn't you apply this natural occurrence to your kata?  I was always taught to "see" your attacker while doing kata.  By burning the image in your head while training, muscle memory is developed faster.

I, too, was always taught (by both American and Okinawan Sensei alike) to look before you move...eyes, feet, then hands.  This doesn't mean that there is a pause between. In fact the series of steps flow into one another, but the order of each initiation is the same, unless the movement is being translated as strictly an evasive movement.

Also, while I understand that kata is not meant as one continuous battle but a collection of movements, we are taught transitions to different directions for the purpose of addressing unexpected attacks with stability, speed, strength, and accuracy. Otherwise, kata would just be a series of movements standing in place and simply shifting from one stance to the next without traveling. I know there are also some esoteric, deeper, perhaps spiritual meanings hidden in the embusen but for the purpose of physical application this makes most sense.

 

I must say, "Thank you, again" for sharing your videos.  I truly enjoyed the video of kata application.  They are very insightful and thought provoking.

 

Humbly and with best regards, Robin Haynes

 

Robin,

Thank you for your comments. I agree with you in regard to the natural reaction to a noise, but I also don't assume there was a noise. 

Sensei used to say that large circles (movements) were created through a collection of smaller circles(movements). 

My head does move, my body moves, but so do my eyes. The eyes are not fixed looking strictly forward. So it is the combination of body movement, slight head movement, body movement and eye movement that allows me to look (if I need to). 

But again, I do not assume there is someone behind me every time I turn around in kata.

Mark Radunz

My attempt to learn Aragaki No Sochin

 

Now long ago one of the kata I played with was known as Aragaki No Sochin, I saw a video of the kata and decided it would be fun to play with. I was intrigued by the kata because I saw many interesting uses for its' techniques as well as the unique way the performer used his body to sell the techniques being used.

I was doing this only to push myself, never to train anyone in the kata. 

So, I pushed myself, teaching myself from that video. I knew I really did not have the whole thing, but that was not the reason I was doing this.

Then I began looking around on YouTube and discovered there are many kata called Aragaki No Sochin, each somewhat different from the others. Not studying the system where this was taught, I knew I would not find the correct answer.

The exercise for me was useful, among other things it pushed myself forward at a time that was most challenging for me. Then again it also was useful in my quest to find new kata techniques to apply (a study that never ends).

Isshin - Concentration the Art: Will the Real Aragaki No Sochin please Stand Up

A past discussion about how Shimabuku, Tatsuo taught kata in 1964-64

 

During 1963-64 Shimabuku stopped teaching Seiunchin, Naihanchi and Wansu kata. Do yo or anyone else know why? I do but for the sake of learning I ask the group,

Rich

Victor comment: that means the empty hand kata of that time were Seisan, Chinto, Kusanku and SunNuSu.

Sherman Harrill also commented to me on this, before that time he had trained his brother in the Isshinryu as he had studied from 1959-1961, Then his brother enlisted in the Marines and was stationed on Okinawa. His brother went to Agena to ask permission to train with Shimabuku. He was asked to perform his kata, doing so as Sherman taught him (this was 1964). He was told that his kata were ok, but that he had to change his punches from the vertical punch to the twisting punch. Tatsuo explained he was taught correctly, but he should not use them in Agena, as at that time the twisting punches were being taught. Another of the variations in Isshinryu that were being taught at that time.

 

Jet Taylor@.... writes,

He was further amplifying the system in order to allow it to be taught in such a short period of time given the short tours of duty which the servicemen had.

The reason Tatsuo gave was that many Americans were trying to learn too much. They were trying to learn kobudo and were not doing the empty-handed kata correctly, so he dropped these three kata. 

At one time there were now several Americans who were staying longer on Okinawa or where were returning and learning more. Bill Blond, John Bartusivices, Louis King and Advincula so the lata continued to be taught.

Rich

Further Victor note: As I heard this after his trips to the States in 1964 and 1966 seeing the original Isshinryu vertical punch was being taught in the states, he reverted to saying the vertical punch was what he felt was the stronger punch.

 

More From a clinic with John Kerker in 2008 in Chicopee at Clarence Whitley’s school.

Use of the elbow strike within the low block- Making the low block strike more effective. 

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMlk40BiiYg

Use of kamae as arm striking   

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqsQGTa0hjQ  

Striking the punching hand knuckles 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OiKSKLLbo

 

When Joe Swift visited Derry, New Hampshire

 

Decades ago on a trip to the States, when Joe Swift was visiting his family in mid New York State, he took a bus and came over to visit me in Derry NH.  We spent Friday night talking, I made him a dinner. Then on Saturday we spent the morning on my driveway showing each other what we were doing. Then that afternoon we did a clinic together with friends from the area. That was a lot of fun. Afterward another friend took Joe further on, in his travels.

Here is Joe performing Tensho Kata at that clinic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qD0sZ_gMek

How I view Isshinryu after 50 years Part II

 

 

If you think about Ti (Toudi) developed in very different context than how karate developed. Those art(s) were working arts used by the 5 families in service to Okinawa.

When karate developed in the Okinawan school system, it was very much to train those students for eventual Japanese military service.

Then as the times opened up, karate was being offered, not so much for self-defense, as Okinawa was a relatively quiet place, but more to allow ordinary Okinawans to share in the idea of karate training, even to the extent of training for good health, similar to how Chinese Tai Chi became a group activity also for health reasons.

The war (WWII) was the war, afterwards perhaps karate seemed to become more popular as a way to like to Okinawan arts, instead ot Japanese ones.

Then Shimabuku Tatsuo upset the apple cart, as his teaching the Marines made money for him. Something other Okinawans began to copy. Karate as a way to produce income began.

Even more changed when those very short-term students started teaching their karate in the States. Realistically by normal Okinawan standards those individuals were not qualified, However Tatsuo gave his permission, likely believing little would come of it. Then to discover that teaching karate in the States took hold.

Likewise, he soon discovered that was occurring without his control over the developing Isshinryu instruction. He would eventually realize control would not really happen given the thousands of miles length and depth of the United States. Something other systems from the States Okinawan export also experienced.

Then realize those initial students of Tatsuo spread across America after returning home, having experienced so much from their brief training, they then decided to open their own dojo and of course things kept changing. 

In a sense that was what the development of karate did on Okinawa. Each new generation kept their own take on what they had earned and then they continued to keep their traditions alive.

In that sense what occurred when Issshinryu was imported into the States was very much the same. Essentially change happens, even when trying not to change.

When Karate Gymnastics was created, it was not meant to become a total lifetime training. Then as karate spread across Okinawa it likewise did not focus on a lifetime of training. It was what it was, people trained and in time learned the full system, I imagined it must have been akin to what Charles Murray found while training in Agena back in 1971-72. At that time the Marines had their own dojo on their base. At that time except for Charles there was only one American training there. The rest were Okinawan students who stopped by on their way home from work to train. There were no formal classes, the Okinawan students just trained as they wished. Always under the observation of Tatsuo.  Charles trained when possible, from early morning to later evening, during the days often by himself.

A very different dojo experience from how dojo were developed in the states.

That brings up thoughts about what long term training should be. While most of the program I observed were really for shorter term students. Only a few had really long-term students training. One local Londonderry dojo had a large long term black belt group who had been training together for decades. There the training consisted of basics, drills, kata, etc. that they had been working on for decades. Their system did not have kobudo, but a group of those seniors traveled to another dojo, with their instructor's permission, to train in kobudo and then brought that training back to their home dojo.

All the group were extremely nice people.

However, that did not seem the idea I wanted to follow. I wanted each dan to push themselves into new individual dimensions.

I slowly worked on how to accomplish this. It was really focused on those who reached at least 20 years training with me, and I meant training, not just standing around and assisting teaching with me.

They had over 10 years on each of their kata, the point where they relaxed in execution, allowing their centers to drop and their power to increase. They were also experienced in understanding how I approached the possibilities of kata technique application and kata technique realization. In other words, experienced karateka. 

I would individually select other kata studies (outside of Isshinryu) to allow them to continually work their minds to do something new. Their kobudo studies continued for I had more to show them, not that they needed them but again to keep their mind fresh and learning.

Then they began more and more to work towards their own understanding how a technique could be applied. Not that they needed another answer, but being able to select another answer, so no one (NOT EVEN ME) would ever know how they would respond.

They would really understand that this would continue for life.

I did not see other programs doing this, perhaps the exception was Sherman Harrill (in his own way) and his students too. Abet differently than I did, but that is of course natural as there was never one answer.

How I view Isshinryu after 50 years Part I

 

 

To make this simpler the idea for these papers came from a recent discussion I had with Charles Murray. I believe it is not something others are talking about.

I am not an expert, I am just what I am, an older man with many memories of what I have seen. I cast no aspersions on anyone in Isshinryu, yet I am not aligned with any of them, just my instructors.

There are many parts to what I have seen, some of them having nothing to do with karate. I will try to show how all of them influenced my life and my understanding of what Isshinryu is to me.

When I began to attend Temple University, I discovered many new things. Among them during my first Speech class, Public Speaking 101, I learned how to construct a speech, which also gave me the template to write every paper later. One semester I had 27 papers, but using what I was taught that provided no difficulty. This will be important later and explains in part how I can write about my experiences and thoughts in my blog.

Furthermore, I began to see things no one else saw. In that era many times many classes used Samuel Becketts "Waiting for Godot", of course that made things easy to write about as I really got to know that play. Later I was able to see Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" at a theater downtown. That was a very popular play in NYC too. I noticed something so I did some research and observed I saw something the professional reviewers did not see. That the structure of Stoppard's work on Hamlet was just copying Beckett' work down to a T and applying it to Hamlet. The same structure, even some of the same approaches to the play. I wrote it up for myself. Never submitted it anywhere just for me.

My choice of being a Speech Major (Rhetoric and Public Address) turned into a focus of the uses of Linguistic Philosophy. Mainly between the General Semantics of Korzybski and the writings of Ludwig Wittgenstein. I realize you do not care; I continued my personal study long after I left school. But the tools I learned in that study formed the toolkit that would explain how I came to see "Isshinryu".

Quite a few years later, I began to write short stories for friends, on the satire series of the Destroyer Novels of Sapir and Murray. More to prove to myself I could do that. Much later I wrote more and more, going longer each time. Stories became longer stories, Novellas, then to those that became books and later more complex books. I only wrote them for myself but learning so much at the same time.

I realized how to begin with an outlining, how research was necessary to write those books in total I wrote about 27 books, just for me. However, they used those skills I developed researching for my efforts for the Temple U. Debate Team and having learned how to write so many papers. Skills I homed in time.

It also is behind how I write for my blog.

I am going to close this by stating something I learned by my study of Linguistic Philosophy. particularly these rules come from General Semantics.

By using a study, I discovered in my study of Linguistic philosophy, that of General Semantics 3 premises.

1.    The word is not the thing. Or the use of the word karate itself does not really describe the reality which is referred to as karate.

2.    The word does not describe the whole thing.  Trying to describe what karate represents never really encompasses everything that is there.

3.    Words, by their nature are self-reflexive. The use of the word then itself becomes another reality a step beyond reality.

In simpler terms a discussion becomes a thing on its own.

Keeping them in mind Will frame what is going to follow.

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2021/01/what-karate-came-to-mean-to-me.html

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2023/07/wittgenstein-and-blue-and-brown-books.html

To make this more understandable you should realize that many times we do not understand what each other are sayings thus causing problems. Far to often individuals do not realize what others' words are saying. This is one of the underlying principles of linguistic philosophy.

Let me begin with an example. 

All language is an abstract way to express reality. That means reality has greater depth than the words.

What is called Isshinryu was always whatever Shimabuku Tatsuo wanted it to be. This is the event level (reality).

Calling those actions, Isshinryu, is but a name, the act of labeling.

Use of the term Isshinryu  was a convenience, it never expressed everything that Shimabuku Tatsuo did. Whatever use of the term meant never encompasses of Tatsuo's actions.

And the use of the word Isshinryu would also refer to many others' uses of Isshinryu, not just those of Shimabuku Tatsuo's actions.

There are ways to get around such issues, such as making sure that one understands the context in which the word is being used. It is always helpful to engage in a communication cycle with those who originally spoke the term.

John Kerker on Full Use of the Seiunchin kata Down Block

 From a clinic with John Kerker in 2008 in Chicopee at Clarence Whitley’s school.  

Use of the elbow strike within the low block- Making the low block strike more effective. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMlk40BiiYg

For 15 years John studied under Sherman Harrill. Sherman worked endlessly to understand what potential Isshinryu held.

 John was one who really worked with Sherman and offered so many lessons that I still keep learning from him even now two decades later.

The Vital Points and the ‘Poison Hand’

Roland Habersetzer - "Bubishi - Bible of Karatee"

(Page 177)

Believe it or not - - Back about1990, for Joe Swift I completed translating a book from French to English. He recommended to Pat McCarthy I might be able to do the same for him. Pat then requested I do the same for a number of French books on karate he had. Thus for several years I found myself cursing my dictionaries, because karate terms were not found in those dictionaries, likewise the school French I had been taught was quite different from the French written for the actual French people. Eventually I completed what I had been requested to do. This came from one of those translation efforts.

The Bubishi refers regularly to the concept of vital points, which is necessary to include/understand as precise points on the anatomy of an adversary on which an action can lead to the defeat of this last. To some extent, a point on which the effect of an attack does not forgive (of where ‘vital’). The knowledge of these particularly weak points which are located a little everywhere on the human body is extremely old, more than a millennium. The first concern of this research was from elsewhere to look after, by the acupuncture and the moxibustion: the science of the meridians., immaterial lines the length whose circulates the energy internal of man (Chi), which is not  to be confused with muscular energy, formed part of the first assets of Chinese traditional medicine. This one will locate 24 meridians in total, of which 12 principal lines running from part  and from the other of the axis vertical meridians of the body. Each one of these meridians, true routes of Chi., is in relation to precise internal organs on which one can act by this intermediary. In effect, throughout these channels are localized some ‘cavities’ (hsueh), or point known as ‘vital’, particularly significant, either because less protected by the muscular mass, either because the meridian is to flower of skin. It is possible to act on these points from several manners: while pricking (technique of the acupuncture), while burning (technique of the moxibustion), while pressing (technical of Tsu-bo, or Shiatsu in Japanese), by striking in various ways (technique of Tien-hsueh, or di-mak, or atemi in Japanese).

All these types of actions stimulate, stop, disturb the current of internal energy, which they invigorate or disperse, which inevitably results in disturbances of the normal operation of the internal organs which are attach to the meridians aim at. This astonishing knowledge of the human machine has been utilized in two directions: to look after (concern of medicine, which was the first direction) and destruction (source of the martial arts,  of which pragmatism was obviously elsewhere, a second direction which was in short derived as a perversion of the first). During centuries, experts distinguished themselves in this science, also masters of the one and the other of these directions (*).

(*) On the meridians the cycles and the old theories of the variations of  the internal energy, one will be able to refer has the work Chi-Kung, la maitrise de l’energie interne of R .Habersetzer to the Editions Amphora, work from which is extracted the diagram from page 179.

 

 

 Page 178

History reports that the emperor Jen Tzung (Jen-tsong: 1023-1063) had the idea of requesting from his doctor to make a statue of a man bronze, on which would be located the meridians and the points of acupuncture. It was in 1026 after J.-C., during the dynasty Sung (song). It is also said that this body made of hollow metal filled with water, and that the points in question was realized (made with) by fine openings masked by wax: speared correctly, they let out a bead of water. Thus, for the first time, an anatomy was represented in three dimensions. They were continued to be refined. Under [During] the Ming dynasty, one saw appearing three models of bronze men, the one representing the man , the other the woman, the other the infant, with their anatomical specificities. Finally, they ended up building a statue of the man in cryatal, transparent models which allowed to add the knowledge of the external localization of the vital points to that of the circulatory system and of the position of the internal organs.

Very quickly the interest also went towards another direction: how to use this anatomical knowledge No more to reestablish health, but to disturb it by provoking the vital items with brutality. Some Taoist monks, preoccupies by all that touched human longevity, were to the point of this type of research and accumulated observations and experiments. Perhaps the celebrated Zhang San-feng, hermit of the mountain Wu Tang, who would have lived with the xiii century in the province of Hopei, especially known to have created a style of combat ancestor to Tai Ju Quan after the observation of  combat between a crane and a snake, formed it already with some disciplines in this field. More certainly, Feng I-yuan, another monk taoist, who lived during the Ming dynasty, advanced the knowledge in the manner of disturbing the vital points by the sole utilization of his naked hands. With him, undoubtedly were connections, for the first time, of a manner that that one can qualify, for the peroid, was scientific, anatomical knowledge and the knowledge of the means of striking. intensity of striking, types and angles of striking, but also striking taking account of the time cycles and phases of the moon and the sun to act according to optimal times.. The knowledge of the time cycles and the phases of the moon and the sun to act according to optimal times.. The knowledge of the time cycles which rhythms the circulation of the internal energy in the human body is probably due to Wu Liu Yuan, another taoist of the same time. That made it possible to know, very precisely, for each point aimed for, the best technical opportunity for which to employ a technique by one for resulting perfect control and wishes : immediately brutal effect or differently, of many hours, days, weeks (from which came the legend of the poison hand, giving death well after having been touched, such a mortal poison being diluted slowly in blood), faintness, sharp pain, blackouts, ruptured bones, or auricular, traumatism superficial or profound, and. Feng I-yuan would thus have located 36 vital points, carefully groups of categories according to the effect that could be caused there (pain, paralysis, fainting, death). These points are multiply thereafter to 72 (which is double.), finally to 108 (which is triple.), figures which of all evidence is symbolic (108 is a figure sacred in Buddhism. There are also 108 movements in the great sequence of Yangjia Tai Ji Quan. The kata of Karate Goju-ryu Suparinpe comes from the Chinese tao Yepatlinpa, which wants to say, therefore, 108 steps...). These sequences of movements (tao or quan, or in Japanese kata) were created to allow the memorization of these attacking techniques to vital points.

The Bubishi evokes through some summary drawings this sum of knowledge accumulated during the centuries (and probably experiments on a number of battlefields, seen with detriment to the prisoners of war). It does not provide in this domain of revelations to upset already known chapters through the records, in particular, of the Japanese schools of traditional Bu Jutsu (1) which inherit some of the Chinese discoveries. Some serious studies (2) have been undertaken these last years for, on the basis of specimens found from the Bubishi, to turn to all the interpretation possible from the contents of the pages devoted to this important domain of art of combat without weapons... They are very significant contributions to the knowledge of the art of millennia  tien-hsueh (atemi) but their degree of detail comes out of the context of the present study, because it somewhat moves them away from the simplicity of the original document. Of the same, the allusions relating to 

Thus those of Fujita Saiko, Konga-ryu Nin-jutsu and Sato-ryu Kempo. 

Thus, those of Ohtsuka Tadahiko has through its publications of Gojukensha of Tokyo (Okinawa-den Bubishi) and, all recently those of Patrick McCarthy of The International Ryukyu Karate Research Society.

 

Page 179

care of the wounds or the diseases by processing based on medicinal herbs are too vague or too incomplete, some additional work suggests it has transcription errors in part from very ancient terms, so that it is possible, without risk, of claiming a clear information. A bad comprehension or a bad fragmentary use of knowledge can prove to be very quickly dangerous, as well what relates to the manner of tackling the vital points as that of repairing the damage caused. It is undoubtedly not for nothing these certain pages and comments of original Bubishi prefer to remain laconic.

Diagram of a clock

Daily clock of Chi

1 to  3  Chou

3 to 5   Yin

5 to 7 Mao

7 to 9 Chen

9 to 11 Si

11 to 13 Wu

13 to 15 Wei

15 to 17 Shen

17 to 19 You

19 to 21 Xu

21 to 23 Hai

23 to  1 Zi

Meridiens route for the energy in 2 hours periods (shih-chen) 

1h to 3h: Liver (hours of the ram)

3h to 5h: Lungs (hours of the monkey) 

5h to 7h: Large intestine (hours of cock) 

7h to 9h: Stomach (hours of dog) 

9 H to 11h: Spleen, pancreas (hours of wild boar) 

11h to 13h: Heart (hours of the rat) 

13h to15h: Small intestine  (hours of ox) 

15h to 17h: Bladder (heads of the tiger) 

17h to 19h: Kidney (hours of rabbit) 

19h to 21h: vessel-sex (hours of the dragon) 

21h to 23h: triple warmer[heater] (hours of the snake) 

23h to 1h: gall bladder (hours of the horse)

Visibly the practical details were to remain at that level of the only oral transmission, of master to disciple, in accordance with the ethic of the group which is shown in the document. We will respect this last, by containing [constraining] us to clarify some little of this zone of shadow [this shaded area] of Bubishi with indications which we had already made published in our wprl “ Kung-Fu, art and technique”. (3) The reader more particularly attracted by these questions, in the bad use of which we would not like to be any responsible, will refer to the recent work of P. McCarthy (4). 

Amphora Editions, work out of print. The chapter on the tien-hsueh owed much to the research of George Charles. 

Work quoted:

 

Page 180

< Drawings from the Bubishi>

Drawings of a modern interpretation of the Bubishi published by Ohtsuka Tadahiko Sensei, with his authorization. It is a taken from figures 13 and 46.

The Technique of Tien-hsueh

The tien-hsueh consists of to concentrate the energy of a blow struck in time (speed of application) and in space (precision of the blow) to a vulnerable point of the human body (1). Struck with a certain proportion of force, or according to a certain angle, at such a point can cause an incapacity temporary or definitive, partial or total, the inhibiting pain, the blackout, death…

At a first stage, the technique of the tien hsueh has as a goal to disturb, even of stopping momentarily or definitively, the blood circulation or flow, respiratory by precise attacks on certain anatomical points of the opponent. Of same, it is in practice to the range [impact] of all the world from acting on a muscle or a group of muscles, of kind to cause a paralization more or less long.

The second stage of the tien hsueh is much more complex. It consists to disrupt (and increasing, diminishing, while blocking momentarily) the vital energy (ch’i) which circulates from one organ to the other by the intermediate meridians.

Lastly, to a stage superior, and according to the tradition of Kung-Fu which makes the state of things disconcerting, sometimes incredible, it would be possible to attack one with this energy nothing that in applying his proper energy, with a very light contact (not of blow strikes) even without any contact! We are it in the techniques said secret, of the iron hand (tieh sha chang), which still known by some old men initiates.

The vital points (hsueh) are in general some points of acupuncture, without which he has the one there rule absolute. One cannot always know, everything, for the old habits of the secrecy made many lists of these points under different terms.

According to the technique and the force employed, the effects of the tien hsueh can be immediate or different, localizes or generalizes, short lived or persistent. The relation of cause and effect is not always so obvious that onel can appear to the first look. And one could verifier, for example, that a shock on a point as first seen as banal can have consequences even more dangerous that a shock on a point apparently more vulnerable (testicles or plexus). Because the purely mechanical effects of a blow are not the only ones has enterer in line of the account. In contrary direction, it can arrive that a blow reputed terrible, decisive, not absolutely that to a side effect, the opponent remaining apparently little affects (habituation to the pain, particular resistance). Lastly, it arrives that a blow doesn’t behave with an effect of delayed action, being able to go a few minutes has several days. How to know and determiner undoubtedly? That is all the art of tien hsueh. 

(1) See the aspects practiced in Decouvrir Kung Fu of R. Habersetzer to the Amphora Editions.

 

Page 181

On the basis of the principle that the vital energy (Chi) circulates in the meridians of an immutable way and passes from one vital point to another following a determined path, the traditional Chinese medicine had established (see above) that, for each organ, there exists one precise period of the day, during which the flow of this energy is maximum.

Knowing this circuit, traditional acupuncture can mitigate an excesses or insufficient energy in a body or an organ group (in both cases, there is an unbalance of the organism, therefore disease), respectively while dispersing or by invigorating some points with acupuncture. (which is also the hsueh of Kung-Fu).  One sees the interest that one can draw in the art from the tien hsueh.

--It is possible from disrupting deeply (made same abstraction of the shock properly known as) a organ or an organ group while acting on the hseuh corresponding to this organ or to an organ directly in connection with it.

--The hseuh are more or less receptive depending on the hours.

--Bringing a surplus of energy to an organ already in plentitude of energy or to operate [cause] a new dispersion of energy in a body already in deficiency of energy, are two forms of precipitation of an unbalancing which are also dangerous, even fatal.

--Knowing the diagrams of the meridians and the interactions of the organs, it is possible to affect an organ of little importance for in fact putting by consequence in danger a vital organ. This degradation, by rebound [ricochet], can besides intervene to more or less long in the long term (a different effect).

Two examples: from 11h to 13h, the Heart is in plentitude of energy, it is enough to excited, by blows, strikes or pressure, the Spleen-Pancreas to cause a hypertension of the Heart, which can be fatal. On the contrary, from13h to 15h the Heart is naturally in loss or energy which, continuing its circuit, passed in the small intestine. It is possible to accelerate dangerously the processes by exciting the meridian (or certain points of this meridian) of the small intestine, or by stimulating the gall bladder, to cause a hypertension of the Heart, being able to go until he blacks out.. It is seen, we are far from the simple mechanical effect of the blow or strikes. In a certain manner, it is good that, pushed to this level, the science of the tien hsueh is lost, or at least is not put to the reach of anyone at all. It is also seen that certain old histories were not stripped of foundation: they reported that masters of Kung-Fu were able, from a very light blow, relatively unimportant, to cause unrelentingly such internal lesions (bursting of organs, atrophies, internal hemorrhages, etc.) that they had had misfortune to touch in combat ended up dying without knowing too much why, a few weeks or some later. Of which probably the naming of certain techniques, badly defines, like ‘the poison hand’ or ‘the iron hand’.

The Principal Hsueh 

One distinguishes five fundamental families from vital points on the human body: 

A: Points causing the blackout: houen hsueh. 

B: Points causing a partial or total incapacity: hia hsueh. 

C: Paralyzing points: ma hsueh.

D: Points mortal: sieu hsueh. 

E: Points having multiple complications (of which different effects being able to lead to death): mou hsueh. 

With regard to the four first families, one can strike these points without taking account of the hour, (circuit of the energy: see above), the fifth isn’t however effective if these

 

Page 182

Points are concerned [connected] to one precise hour of the day. It remains that a number of points of the four premiere families have equally as much of an effect much larger than those that respect the hour of the fullness of energy of the meridian which traverses them. In this case, same certain of these points, apparently of less importance, can cause very serious complications in entire body, and go until death.

Here are some of these points (plate on page 186). This isn’t well understood that a general idea intended to inform the reader on the extreme richness of the art of the tien hsueh (with indications on the ‘times’ of optimal efficiency).

A - Among points of fainting (houen hsueh)

No  2 : tai yang, on the temple, between  23 h and 1 h.

No  3 : weng tching, between 13 h and 15 h.

No  4 : sseu tsiao, on the jaw, between 8 h and 9 h.

No  7 : hiuan ki, on the sternum, between 3 h and 4 h.

No  8 : kiang tai, “plexus cardiaque” [Plexus (solar), heart attack ?] between 9 h and 11 h.

No 10: ki men, to same level, from 23 h to 1 h and from 11 h to 13 h.

No 11: tchang men, to the extremity of the 11th rib, from 1 h to 3 h.

B – Among the points called ‘ of silence’ (hia hsueh)

No  6 : kien kin, from 3 h to 5 h.  Impression of electrocution then, in the 5 hours which follow, partial   

            paralysis  from the arms of the side of the point of attack.

No 22:  ya men, from 15 h to 17 h. Convusion or death if the attack is very powerful.

No 24 : fong men, from 3 h to 5 h. Impression of choking, suffocating.

No 26 : jou tong, from 21 h to 22 h.

No 28 : fong wei, from 15 h to 17 h. Vomiting and general weakness.

No 29 : tsiong ts’ou, to the left (jam) block the spleen (from 9 h to 10 h), to the right the liver (from 1 h to

            3 h). Intense pain.  

No 30 : saio yao, from 17 h to 18 h, Paralysing Pain in all the stomach, eventually dying.

C – Among the points leading to a paralysis (ma hsueh)

No 13 : kio kou, the back of the body doesn’t respond any longer. A Death Point if attacked from 11 h to 13 h.

No 23 : t’ien tchou, the arms are paralyzed. Intense Pain in the pectoral and the under-spine [very difficult, perhaps under the spine], Complications if the point is attacked between 22 h and 23 h.

No 16 : pi jou,  paralysis of the arms, impossibility of closing the hand. Attacks the respiration system if the point is attacked from 3 h to 5 h.

No 17 : kiu tche, paralysis of the hand. Intense heat in the fingers. Most effective between 21 h and 22 h.

No 14 : hou keou, pain irradiates in the arms. Most effective between 15 h and 17 h.

No 15 : pai hai, repercussions on all the organism.

D – Among the points proving to be mortal (sieu hsueh)

No  1 : t’ien ling,  summit of the skull (fontanelle). Most effective in the morning.

No  5 : k’i men, To the source of the larynx and of the esophagus. Death by arresting respiration.  Point 

particularly effective between 7 h and 9 h.

No  9 : t’ang men,  Cardiac region. Stops respiration and the heart.

No 12 : ki men, Affects the nervous system in his body. Spasms, convulsions, death. From 19 h to 23 h.

No 20 : nao hai, Fainting and then death.  Particularly sensitive from 15 h to 17 h.

No 21 : tien si, Direct influence on the brain. Dazzling flash, loss of balance, dead. Particularly sensitive from 23 h to 1 h.

No 25 : pei lang, 7th dorsal vertebrae. Most effective in the afternoon.

No 27 : ki sin, 5th lombar, Death by blockage in the kidneys and then in the spleen. Most effective in the Night.

 

Page 183

E – The points with multiple complications (mou hsueh)

They cause very serious disorders while acting gradually in the whole organism if they are attacks at the hour where the vital energy is there at its maximum and according to a particular strike (which determines for example the time of reaction, immediate or deferred ). The majority of these points are elsewhere mortal (especially to the head) if the striking is very powerful.  It is a short-term result. In fact, the art of the tien hsueh researches most, in the case of these points, of the delayed effect (progressive attenuation and generalized, definitive paralysis, changing for the worse, etc.) Here are some (circled numbers on the drawing on page 186) : jen tchang (1), tien ting (2), wo kong (3), tchouanseu (4), tai yang (5), chang tsiang (6), tai yuan (7), tsi kan (8), chi hai (9).

There are a quantity of different points. To the limit, the practitioner should deliver himself to a morphological study of his adversary according to criteria of traditional acupuncture... In only one glance, it should be able, by a kind of physiognomy, know the weak points of this one (structure and general aspect, behavior, attitudes, gestures, ways of going, of expressing themselves, the shape of the face, eyes, ears, etc). Such sign would teach him whereas the adversary has fragile lungs, such other would denote a disordered renal state ... It is then enough to attack at the good place, without same an excessive force!

Let us return more precisely to passages of the  Bubishi relative to this field. Some drawings (page 185) present various hand configurations. This page evokes the kata Rokkishu (techniques of the 6 hands) from which is the inspiration of Chojun Miyagi, founder of Goju-ryu Karatedo, for to create  Tensho No kata. They are six methods of using the hand as a natural weapon: ' saber hand’, ' spade hand', ' claw', ' spade fingers'... The hand must be conditioned, through special training consisting in particular to prick it in a container filled with sand then increasingly larger gravel.

One to notice that the Bubishi illustrates the hand, not the fist, or another of the ' natural weapons' such as currently listed in Kung Fu or in Karatedo. One will remember indeed that the abusive practice of hardening to the striking post (makiwara) on the one hand, the incomprehension of certain technical smoothness by Okinawans when they recruited these techniques from China on the other hand, finally the will of certain old men masters of Okinawa to pass their art to the future generations like pedagogic tools more than like a warlike legacy first to a modern time, have been as much an factor in the same direction: the impoverishment of the techniques executed with open hands and their replacement by techniques of the fist, unquestionable powerful but of employment more limiting and tending has to block internal energy instead of radiating it (*).

Page 184 represents an other means of using the body for the techniques of tien-hsueh. 

N.B. These drawings long figure in the Bubishi and haven’t been reproduced here to recall the richness of the ‘natural arms’, inventories in the course of the centuries. But also for, in the same reason of their absence in the Bubishi, underlines the importance given to the simple open hand

See equally on page 166, the vital points of ‘the Bronze Man’ such as indicated by the Bubishi.

(*) Read, on this aspect fundamental of the appearance of techniques and kata origins, the work ‘Koshiki no kata’ of R. Habersetzer from Editions Amphora. See equally ‘Happoren No Kata’ in the last part of this volume.

Translated from the original French by Victor Smith, I take all responsibility for any mistakes.

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2014/02/comparison-of-vital-points-listed-by.html

A discussion - One Glimpse of Sherman – the Side Block

               Hey Rich,

At 12:29 PM 3/8/2005 -0500, you wrote: Now we are talking about a standard shoulder high block as taught in the Isshin ryu basic's, am I right?   Right.

> Now Lenny, you've been on the receiving end of my blocks and have trained in my dojo. We also come from the same stable. I have to say that if you cannot make the block work, then you are most certainly doing it wrong. Sensei Harrill is the person who taught me how to get this block  to work properly.

Yeah, but you also outweigh me by 50 #'s, and if we were to stand toe to toe, you could more than likely punch thru my block whether I did it correctly, incorrectly or if I were lucky. The point is there is no way I can out strength you. You know that usually during kumite, the most effective block is just an open hand deflection, slap block, or redirection, whatever you choose to call it. I think I said to John or Steve that Harrill Sensei's block worked all the time because it was based on structure rather than on strength.

> The block doesn't fight the punch, it redirects it. But I do admit, most have trouble when doing it wrong. I guess one can say that's with anything in life.

It's more than just redirecting it. His block moved in a forward / backward plane rather than a left / right plane. The arm went out to meet the incoming punch and then sucked it past you as it redirected. He was also postured properly and he was smooth about it. That is "structure." There is no strength required when you do it that way, and with a little practice, it works very predictably. It also gives the puncher the feeling that his elbow is almost hyperextending.

I hope we're talking about the same thing. :-) : Len

 

I'd like to offer another perspective on chudan uke. Looking at the movement, it has two beats to it. The hand moves in towards my center (think of the opening of Seisan with the hand stack; that is the first beat, the movement towards my hip), then back out for what is usually termed the "blocking" motion (the ending opening posture of Seisan, chudan uke). I believe it wise to train assuming an attacker will hit me on the first beat of a fight. This means chudan uke is too slow to catch a punch if being used as a block. It is not something I would use on the street if I thought this is what it were for.

However.... if we hit the arm on the first beat, this is a strong movement (adduction - movement towards my centerline) and I would be catching the attack on the first beat. So I have a chance of using it realistically. After hitting the arm with the first beat (inward movement), I can use the second beat (the "blocking" portion) to smack my attacker in the head. After all, hitting the arm with some intent will cause the attacker's knees to bend and head to come forward. This is an efficient use of the movement, as something is accomplished with the first and second beat. It is using my mechanical strength, so I have a chance of it working on a larger attacker. And after the hit of the arm, I can use that back hand to grab the wrist and keep it locked to my hip as I hit the attacker in the head. So I have a reason for the hand at the hip in the usual chudan uke posture. This is something I would use on the street.

Thanks,  Matt

 

Steve Jamison wrote: Len-san posts the following . . .

> I never saw anyone whether in a real fight or even  playing kumite use the standard chudan soto uke to block a punch.

Len's horrifying use of the English language notwithstanding, it is indeed very difficult to use that "block" to deal with that particular attack.

Len-san continues with his sentence structure and spelling lesson:

> Like you said, unless you cooperate, if you really mean it, you will probably be able to punch thru a standard block.

I have spent an enormous amount of time practicing this "block" and plenty of time trying to make it work with a person standing in front of me. In an uncontrolled situation where my attacker is going to follow through with full power, it is very difficult to **use the outside of the forearm** in a *standard* kind of block. The time delay between when the punch is recognized, the fact that the punch travels in a straight line, the fact that the "block" travels two or more times further to effect the block (if you do the "basic" motion,) all conspire to cause you to get plastered or at best wind up in a tie. The only way to really make it work consistently is to buy yourself some time with some footwork and even then a palm open check

is really required. 

Kerker-sensei writes: > Shows me that you must not have paid attention to his  most precious message. Basics, Basics, and more basics. 

I've watched a fifth-dan and a third-dan play with this and even *knowing* which fist is coming sometimes they were clashing or flat out missing the "block" more often than not. If these guys couldn't make it look good, it needs to be re-thought or re-prioritized. I have a passing familiarity with the basics as taught by your Sensei. While the outside forearm chudan block was in the mix, so were six other uses for this "block" motion that made good sense and in many cases can't help but work.

Now I keep using quotes around "block." The motion of the basic chudan "blocking" motion is the tool of a thousand uses. I can use that motion for *many* other things, with a far greater success rate, than I can as a chudan outside forearm block. In order for a technique to be valid, it must work if the 110 lb. female is trying not to get knocked out cold and stuffed in the trunk of a car. Anything less is irresponsible.

"It puts the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose . . . "  SJJ 

 steve jamison

Hello John,

At 08:48 PM 3/7/2005 -0500, you wrote: > Although you didn't train with him very often you always seem to bring up Mr  Harrill's name.

That's because he had a good way about him. Despite the fact that I had only been to a and he made an impression on me.

> To say that you, "never saw anyone use the standard Isshinryu blocks, whether in a real fight or play kumite", Shows me that you must not have paid attention to his most precious message. Basics, Basics, and more basics.

Actually, what impressed me most was that one time he said that it was his job as a teacher to have everyone present at the seminar be able to do what he was teaching regardless of their size, etc. I took "basics, basics basics" to mean fundamentals. He, too would say to concentrate on the principles. Also, the way he taught the 6th basic, as described by Stever Jamieson, was based on "structure" not strength. That's why anyone who learned it from him could make it work.

> Mr. Harrill's other pet peeve was that people were always trying to add things to Isshinryu that were from outside the system. His exact words were, "

> Don't try to fix something that isn't broken. Isshin ryu as taught and practiced by Shimabuku Sensei is far from broken, so leave it alone."

I don't how Shimabuku taught it; I only know how I was taught it. I could never get it to work in a "real situation" until I learned it from him at a seminar. The way he put it just rang a bell. On the other hand, not everybody can do it as Shimabuku taught and practiced it, so sometimes you need to give people a different path up the mountain. The "my way of the highway" method of teaching karate does not hold much water in my book. It's the superior teacher who can teach a technique to have anyone be able to make it work.

I see Rich and Steve have jumped into the discussion, and I'm too lazy to type everything a million times, so I'll continue there, :-)   

Thanx for the note, Len

Hey Steve,

> Len's horrifying use of the English language notwithstanding, “That's because I'm an idiot, remember? ROFL” >it is indeed very difficult to use that "block" to deal with that particular attack.  I have spent an enormous amount of time practicing this "block" and plenty  of time trying to make it work with a person standing in front of me. In an uncontrolled situation where my attacker is going to follow through with

> full power, it is very difficult to **use the outside of the forearm** in a *standard* kind of block. The time delay between when the punch is recognized, the fact that the punch travels in a straight line, the fact > that the "block" travels two or more times further to effect the block (if  you do the "basic" motion,) all conspire to cause you to get plastered or at  best wind up in a tie.

Thank you for a very nice explanation of the same problem I have with it. You command the language goodly. :-) 

Note to John Kerker: This is indeed the block to which I was referring.

> The only way to really make it work consistently is  to buy yourself some time with some footwork and even then a palm open check is really required. Usually with the rear hand, I found.

> Now I keep using quotes around "block." The motion of the basic chudan  "blocking" motion is the tool of a thousand uses. I can use that motion for  *many* other things, with a far greater success rate, than I can as a chudan  outside forearm block. In order for a technique to be valid, it must work  if the 110 lb. female is trying not to get knocked out cold and stuffed in the trunk of a car. Anything less is irresponsible.

This is the problem that you see in dojo all over the place (not necessarily Isshin dojo for all your paranoid types out there :-) ). I've seen it in Goju and Shotokan dojo also. Students are irresponsibly led to believe they can just stand there and slug it out toe to toe with someone 60# heavier and 6 inches taller than they are.

Like Rich K posted, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." 

Len

 

In a message dated 3/8/2005 9:24:30 PM Central Standard Time,writes: to call it. I think I said to John or Steve that Harrill Sensei's block worked all the time because it was based on structure rather than on strength. One thing Mr Harrill always said was that," A good technique requires no strength."

Now this "Structure" word seems to be the new buzz word in martial arts these days. I've heard a lot of people describe "Structure" in different ways. Sensei never used this term in the Dojo. He just called it good basics.

John

In a message dated 3/8/2005 9:24:30 PM Central Standard Time, writes: It's more than just redirecting it. His block moved in a forward / backward plane rather than a left / right plane. The arm went out to meet the incoming punch and then sucked it past you as it redirected. He was also postured properly, and he was smooth about it. That is "structure." There is no strength required when you do it that way, and with a little practice, it works very predictably. It also gives the puncher the feeling that his elbow is almost hyper-extending.

I hope we're talking about the same thing. :-) :Len

I had this sensation many a times, It was more like being pulled into a trap. But like wise Mr. Harrill would put a little focus in the same motion and knock you senseless.

Mr. Harrill had great command of the Isshinryu basics and was able to make most things he did seem effortless.

John

Blocks work fine, depending on how you address them.

The beginning outside moving side block is great if you're shifting appropriately as the attacking limb is coming towards you. This can be by stepping body shifting, or by appropriate use of the knee release to do the same thing without stepping (faster too).

If you're meeting it heads on with the side block the attacking punch is often faster and you might get nailed, but that's a great training tool to improve your response time, don't overlook that usage. Just make the student understand the difference TRAINING is NOT Application.

Then more specifically Harrill Sensei's sucking block is great too. A different flavor of the same.

Course slamming the fist from the beginning motion into their shoulder joint, or into their biceps using the vertical knuckles as a sap, works fine too.

Layers of attention. Layers of possibility. Layers of training to learn how to improvise on the theme.

Seems what this should be about.   Victor Smith  bushi no te Isshinryu

 

In a message dated 3/9/2005 12:13:41 AM Eastern Standard Time writes:

Looking at the movement, it has two beats to it. The hand moves in towards my center (think of the opening of Seisan with the hand stack; that is the first beat

Hi Matt,

In the opening move in Seisan the hand should not be stacked on the hip. If you do this your not using economy of motion and if you do it this way, you will most certainly get tagged with the punch. Look, everything is relevant. That said, if a person is far enough from me when they punch, I have time to waste. If a person is in close quarters, this is how Isshin ryu engages, then you can waste time. Yes the arm comes across the body, covering or sweeping center mass, but does not get stacked on the hip first.

Thanks Matt,  Rich

In a message dated 3/8/2005 10:24:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

Yeah, but you also outweigh me by 50 #'s, and if we were to stand toe to toe, you could more than likely punch thru my block whether I did it correctly, incorrectly or if I were lucky This statement reminds me of what Mr. Kordell said to me at his home years ago. He said, that this drill I was doing worked on Alan S. because I was stronger or outweighed Alan (Len's better looking brother). Shortly afterwards I proved him wrong, we had to make a short visit to ER. Jeeze I'm sorry for that Rich, really, I am and how have you been?

However, Len, you then contradicted yourself somewhat in your reply. Wait let me paste it...you wrote: That is "structure." There is no strength required.

Yes Lenny, now you're getting it. No strength when done correctly. Now somewhere else you said. that's not how I was taught. But Len, I did show you how I do it, I know I did. Sensei Harrill, as Mr. Kerker stated, kind of sucked the punch in. I said redirected it. Same thing.

I said you have to be doing it wrong, you wrote and with a little practice, it works very predictably. It also gives the puncher the feeling that his elbow is almost hyper-extending.

Now, I remember how we, yes you and I, were taught the middle block. I also know that since the late 80's and meeting Advincula sensei, I changed how I do the middle block, I know that since 1990 after meeting Harrill sensei, I again added his way to the middle block. Both of these sensei's blocks work well.

Both trained under Tatsuo in Isshinryu. 

I now have the best of both worlds with them on my side. I also teach this and you know this to be true. I have tried to show you but you may have missed that class or kept trying to do it the Kishaba way. I don't know how you do it today, but to say Isshinryu's middle block doesn't work, would not be telling it as it really is.

So, when one can't get something to work within their perspective ryuha, they need to ask their sensei. If that's not possible, then they need to train with someone until they make it work. Running to another style is not and never was the answer, because chances are history will repeat itself. Not pointing the finger at Lenny or anyone in particular, only giving examples and experience. Thanks in advice, Rich

Hello John,

I know nothing about "buzz" words... martial or otherwise. However, structure is a term that's been around an awfully long time.      IYE... IYV does the term structure refer to something other than the skeletal structure... by that meaning "structure" is identified specifically (and particularly) as the bones and the muscles which make those bones specifically function?  Just checking...   Jeff

 

Mr. Ruberto writes of the chudan uke:  > No strength when done correctly. and he referred to Len's post saying:

> Now somewhere else you said. that's not how I was taught.  But Len, I did show you how I do it, I know I did. Sensei Harrill, as Mr. Kerker stated, kind of sucked the punch in.  I said redirected it. Same thing.

I will have to go with Len on this one. At least that is not how I was taught the chudan "block," and Harrill-sensei's use of the motion is altered from the way I see 98% of the Isshin-ryu world doing and teaching the "block." Advincula-sensei's block is more circular and used exactly the way it appears. Harrill-sensei's motion goes more directly out to meet or more literally, to create a wedge to redirect and *then* draws the attacker back in.

> I said you have to be doing it wrong, you wrote: and with a little practice, it works very predictably. It also gives the puncher the feeling that his elbow is almost hyper-extending.

I confess my training has included precious little practice in Harrill-sensei's manner of chudan "block." There still seems to be a critical timing aspect to this method that I haven't mastered in a non-prearranged situation. I can definitely see it working, but I need to alter my mindset. I tend to get lazy and check, preferring to use taisabaki/ashisabaki to move the target, or eat a small piece by slipping it to get position for the big gun. "Block 'em and clock 'em" if you will. 

> Both of these sensei's blocks work well.  Both trained under Tatsuo in Isshin ryu.

Harrill-sensei's chudan block looks nothing like any of the tapes of  Shimabuku Tatsuo I've ever seen. In this sense I have to believe that Advincula-sensei is teaching exactly what he was taught by his teacher.

> So, when one can't get something to work within their perspective  ryuha, they need to ask their sensei. If that's not possible,  then they need to train with someone until they make it work.

It really should work all by itself, more often than not. If you need to *make* it work through careful timing, brute force, or luck then something is wrong. If the 110 lb female can't make it work against a fat-body like me something is wrong. If a san-dan and a go-dan look like a monkey f'ing a football trying to make it work something is wrong. 

This is self-defense, not brain surgery. A hand is flying at your face at warp 9, the success rate should be near 100% in the dojo, because when your brain is 80 proof adrenaline you aren't going to be much for timing things up and your body motions are very much going to become more mechanical and thinking is way out of the question. (Note: I prepped this message two days ago, Advincula-sensei posted the same thing to the Isshinkai yesterday.)

Please don't think I'm dumping on all of Isshin-ryu. The chudan block has been my pet peeve since I was a seventh kyu and noticed *no one* ever does a chudan block when the situation becomes uncontrolled/non-prearranged. Does that motion have use? Many. I know I'll be crapped on for lack of practice, you are doing it wrong, you just suck, blah, blah, blah. Whatever.

Oh, and Joe Paden may follow Advincula-sensei unquestioningly, and Advincula-sensei may have reposted Len's post to the Isshinkai for comment, but neither is a capital offense. Lighten up Francis. Len is on the Isshinkai or at least he was a few days ago when I checked the member list and Advincula-sensei knew Len would see it. Len can fight his own battles, he doesn't need the moderator to use his power in his defense.

And, I am not one of Advincula-sensei's favorite people because of my critical eye toward subjects like the chudan block. I'm not in a popularity contest and I don't follow anyone blindly. I'm still in Isshin-ryu because it works and it is grounded in good basics.

I'm a little out of the loop and a couple days behind, forgive me if I'm covering old ground.

FWIW, SJJ

 

I think it was about 1997 when Harrill Sensei showed his way of using the side block to draw the opponent towards oneself. That was the clinic where Mr. Lewis visited with us too. His way of using that block was an eye opener.

But the interesting thing about that side block was how similar it was to stick blocking technique in the Bando Short Stick form I teach which I learnt back in 83. That form taught a moving block with the stick that is identical to Harrill Sensei's use of the side block.

But until Harrill Sensei did it, even though I knew it both in stick and empty hand versions of the Bando form, I didn't see the parallel within the Isshinryu usage.

One of the vivid memories I retain of Harrill Sensei was how he kept ringing out new variations of use in those old familiar Isshinryu techniques.

This is definately not a case of one art influencing the other, just a demonstration how there are similar answers in many places.

For those who've been members of my Pleasant List perhaps you've saved the .avi file of that form when I shared it last month. Review it and you'll find two clear examples in the stick form of the same blocking technique.

Pleasantly, Victor Smith  bushi no te Isshinryu

 

In a message dated 3/11/2005 2:41:57 PM Eastern Standard Time writes:

I will have to go with Len on this one. At least that is not how I was taught the chudan "block," and Harrill-sensei's use of the motion is altered from the way I see 98% of the Isshin-ryu world doing and teaching the "block." Advincula-sensei's block is more circular and used exactly the way it appears That's it Jamison, you hurt my most inner feelings by going with Lenny on this. You are wrong however in your  observations. Most things Mr. Harrill demonstrated were difficult to see with the eye. He would have to slow it down a whole lot and break it down a whole lot, for most of us to learn it. On the surface it looked like any other correctly executed block. I don't believe he altered Tatsuo's block and I wouldn't call it a wedge either. It was circular in nature. But, when he broke it down it may have looked like a wedge, but I don't think it was. Bottom line, it worked.

Let me bring this back to where I believe it all started. If you wind up a block or use poor body mechanics, poor economy of motion, use the wrong technique at the wrong time, you will more than likely fail at blocking. Matt, correct me Matt if I'm wrong, said, two step block. Another guy said, stack at the hips, like in Seisan. Both of these blocks will usually fail. They take to long to execute, use poor economy of motion, and have no leverage. (body mechanics). 

The point of my response was to bring out good qualities of a properly executed block. It shoudln't have gotten off track and become a comparison between Advincula, Harrill and Tatsuo. I used them only as a good point of reference.   Thanks Steve,

Rich

 

Boy what a lot of good discussion here. I think the topic hasn't even been opened yet.

Now I don't know much, outside of doing Isshinryu for decades I haven't been around much Isshinryu to know what others are doing.  What I have seen in the last decade or so was Harrill Sensei, and I think the discussion as been missing many important portions of the public sharings he made. But I didn't have much chance to be with him, maybe 40 or so hours. Rich knows much more of Sherman than I and of couse John Kerker is so intimate with Harrill Sensei's path I can't imagine what he's experienced. I only took a few notes.

But what I have seen confirms exactly what Rich said, Harrill Sensei's answers were often very subtle. My words would be that he explored the fractals of motion within the technique. [Fractals is a term I appropriated from some Bagua folks but it works for me.]

I do know Harrill Sensei did not have one answer how to use the side block effectively. I suspect he had uncountable ones, off of several main themes. Sherman always said the underlying principles were more important than the application. Course he also said if pressed he'd likely just hit the person.

I think it was my 5th or 6th clinic with Harrill Sensei before the sucking variation of the side block was shown/focused for me and my students. I'm sure he did it before, but we weren't looking or directed at some other aspect.  And Harrill Sensei wasn't just talking about the Side Block, he was sharing all blocks could be done in a way they would draw the person closer to you as the motion deflected their strike, making them closer to hit.

But it is very wrong to think that is how he did the side block, for he had many other ways, each painfully effective, to use it.

And reading between the lines, Sherman strongly indicated that the use of the lower body every time was an important part of the answer, but outside of a word or two, rarely mentioned what he was doing. I strongly suspect that is part of the better answers.

If Steve is right that 98% of Isshinryu does not explore the blocking motion sucking power, why I'm sorry for them. Actually once I was shown it made great sense as I had been doing it in my stick technqiue for at least 15 years prior to that time.  I believe it is a true fractal of the original blocking technique, just focusing on a subset of the motion.

As some know I've experienced a number of different instructors. One of them an Indonesian uses several concepts that help frame this block usage. In his arts at the advanced levels of training they exhibit no chambers at all, just explode into the final piece of a technique to sell it. That is part of the beauty of this Harrill Sensei adaption.

In part it shaves part of the blocking chambering motion away to get out there faster, and it is done with the full body, not just the arm (at least as I see it). You don't just put the arm out and pull it back, you release your knees and your body dropping pulls the arm back.  There is how I explain a portion of the structural dynamics behind the movement.

But again I'm only concentrating on one of Harrill Sensei's pubically shared techinque applications.  It is no better than the rest.

Now just because the classical motion is done straight forwards or backwards does not mean it should fail. I always like listening to students say, it only works for you because you're larger and more powerful (I a big, slow dude). Yep, then I'd throw back how Tris Sutrisno (1/2 of my size) or Ernie Rothrock (likewise smaller) could use me like a ping pong ball with the same technique.

It isn't size, that's just an excuse for not wanting to work to make it work. Everyone's size is larger than a striking arm if they use their full body in unison to apply a technique. Thats what the words effortless power means anyway. 

If one piece of your motion or body are unaligned in execution power drops. Take the Augmented side block, I bet Rich can't get through Len's augmented side block with one punch, no matter how powerful. But it's not the arm pressing against the wrist that makes it work. If only the index finger touches the inner arm, the same power is evidenced, and if the body works correctly the other arm can be in chamber and it still works.

The big black belt instruction manual (I assume you all have your copy) is full of blank pages. There's nothing that says you can't apply the technique straight but at an angle from their attack. You can step to do it, or you can release your knees and center yourself across their attack and do it.

The normal problem on the straight line is they're exploding to you. If you adjust you can make it work. However its easier to accept it won't work and do something else.

I'm of the school of thought if you can't make it work you have to work, smarter, better and harder to learn how to do it.

You know the first time I met Sherman he impressed me with the way he used that side block to take us apart. His crossing hands were strikes, his chambering hands were slashes, his crossing hands tore up arms and opened locking movements, and so much more.

Well perhaps a closing word to Len. I once saw a strong, fast young Shorin black belt (probably late 20's) drive a punch towards Sherman while his arms were dangling at his sides. Before the punch landed, Sherman took his right arm and blasted it down as a strike across that guy's forearm, which immediately dropped down.

If Rich tries to strike you, give that a try, but let him think you're going to side block. 

Who said you have to play fair,

 Victor