Andy Sloane on the Isshinryu Lower Body Chart

  

The lower body chart I taught you, is exactly what I learned and was posted on Mr. Lewis dojo wall. But there are always other answers. Andy Sloan on Okinawa shared this.

 

 

Andy Sloane The original lower-body chart consisted of the following:

1. Toe touch stretch
2. Back bend
3. Standing leg stretch
4. Squatting leg stretch
5. Front kick
6. Forward-angle kick
7. Cross-stomp kick
8. Side snap kick (blade/heel of foot)
9. Side kick (ball of foot)
10. Squat kick
11. Toe-rip kick (changed to heel thrust)
12. Knee smash kick
13. Pushups on knuckles
14. Body twist
15. Deep breathing

The majority of the Americans seem to have learned the lower-body chart (Ashi no Bu) second and this led them to call it Chart II. But some of them, like Bill Blond, actually learned this chart first, so, to those folks, the lower-body chart was Chart I.

 

 

 In my school, since technique 1 and 2 are similar to technique 15, I combine numbers 1 and 2 to make it a 2-part exercise, which frees up a space to add in the back kick and still retain a total of 15 lower-body basics.

 

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/search?q=lower+body+chart

Andy Sloane on the Isshinryu Lower Body Chart

 

The lower body chart I taught you, is exactly what I learned and was posted on Mr. Lewis dojo wall. But there are always other answers. Andy Sloan on Okinawa shared this.

 

 

Andy Sloane The original lower-body chart consisted of the following:

1. Toe touch stretch
2. Back bend
3. Standing leg stretch
4. Squatting leg stretch
5. Front kick
6. Forward-angle kick
7. Cross-stomp kick
8. Side snap kick (blade/heel of foot)
9. Side kick (ball of foot)
10. Squat kick
11. Toe-rip kick (changed to heel thrust)
12. Knee smash kick
13. Pushups on knuckles
14. Body twist
15. Deep breathing

The majority of the Americans seem to have learned the lower-body chart (Ashi no Bu) second and this led them to call it Chart II. But some of them, like Bill Blond, actually learned this chart first, so, to those folks, the lower-body chart was Chart I.

 

 

 In my school, since technique 1 and 2 are similar to technique 15, I combine numbers 1 and 2 to make it a 2-part exercise, which frees up a space to add in the back kick and still retain a total of 15 lower-body basics.

 

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/search?q=lower+body+chart

Upper and Lower Body Chart

 

 Upper and Lower Body Chart in Agena

‎Back om the early 1990s, on Pleasant Isshinryu ,There was a discussion about what basic charts people used. This is what was discussed.

 

 

Albert Mady‎ to KARATE FRIENDS

A question for our senior sensei. Were the 15 upper body basics and eight lower body basics set in stone from the beginning, were there changes, additions or deletions. How were they practiced. Thank you

Top of Form 1

https://www.facebook.com/carl.miller.77964?fref=ufi

 

Carl Miller Lol. Obviously not set in stone because I was taught 15 upper and 9 lower.

 

I think slight variations happened just from memory. No YouTube when I or anyone before us had to rely on.

 

Victor Donald Smith In 1974 when I originally learned them there were 15 upper body and 15 lower body, I still teach them that way.

Original Lower Body Combinations

1. Front Snap Kick
2. Knee Strike (45degrees)
3. Front Kick (Side)
4. Cross Kick
5. Side Snap Kick
6. Heel Strike (Knee)
7. Knee Strike
8. Rear Kick
9. Side Kick (45 degrees rear)
10. Squat Kick
11. Side Kick (on Floor)
12. Front Thrust (from floor)
13. Double Jump Kick
14. Roundhouse Kick
15. Side Kick (Rear 45 degrees), Rear Kick

Original Upper Body Combinations

1. RFF Right Punch
2. RFF Right Uppercut
3. LFF Right Punch
4. LFF Right Uppercut
5. RFB Left Low Block, Right Punch
6. RFB Left Side Block, Right Punch
7. RFB Left Arm Block, Right Spear
8. RFB Left High Block, Right Punch
9. RFB Left Open Hand Block, Right Uppercut
10. RFB Left Bridge Strike (Nose), Right Punch
11. LFF Left Low Block 5 Punches
12. LFF Left Side Block 5 Punches
13. LFF Right Roundhouse Punch, Left (Same)
14. LFF Left Open Low Block, Right Shuto
15. Break Bear Hug

 

John Kerker I think the upper body basics (chart 1) have pretty much stayed the same, it's the lower body basics (chart 2) I see different, many have forgone the stretches and balance drills and added kicks.

 

Matthew Whitley Would you be able to send me chart 2? I currently only have the 8 kicks and nothing else....

 

Mark Lahti In 1974 I remember a conversation between Master Pogue and another black belt. They were discussing the kin geri and how it had been dropped from the isshinryu basics, but our dojo would train in it and "utilize it in a manner so that our opponents feel subject to intercourse in an upward direction" (Paraphrasing). I still prefer the kin geri.

 

Pete Mills Any body can change them, but I teach them just like Master Shimabuku taught in our dojo in 1966. They are posted on my web page.

 

John Kerker By the way....There is no reason to change them, and they serve there purpose and work very well if trained properly.

 

Dan Jason Price In 1966 when I started, we learned 15 upper body and 15 lower body, I still teach them that way.

 

Andy Sloane There were 15 lower-body basics to go along with the 15 upper-body basics. Why some people decided to remove the exercises and the stretching from the lower-body chart is a mystery.

 

Ittsukan Dojo From an Agena dojo handout 1964/65. 15 upper, 14 lower. The back kick is missing and "puck" kick should be push (heel) kick. Deep knee bends has been changed to toe touches as the knee bends can cause injury.

Andy Sloane And when the back kick was added a few years later, it became 15 (again). But there were 15 in the late 1950s, so there was a slight modification to them in the early 1960s, it seems.

 

Ittsukan Dojo Andy Sloane , thanks. Do you know what the difference was between the late 50s list and this mid 60s list? The 8 standard kicks are on the mid 60s list. Was it an exercise that was dropped?

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, I have it as:

1. Toe touch stretch
2. Back bend
3. Standing leg stretch
4. Squatting leg stretch
5. Front kick
6. Angle kick
7. Cross-over kick
8. Side kick (heel/blade of foot)
9. Side kick (ball of foot)
10. Squat kick
11. Toe-rip kick
12. Knee smash kick
13. Pushups (on knuckles)
14. Body twist
15. Deep breathing

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, What I do for my students is I combine #1 and #2 because their movements are similar to #15. That makes my #1 a 2-part exercise and frees up a space to put the back kick in the sequence. I teach the heel thrust instead of the toe-rip kick as part of the basics because that's what it was changed to in the 1960s. I still teach toe-rip kick in Sunsu kata though.

 

Ittsukan Dojo The most recent list I have is

1) Toe Touch Stretch
2) Standing Leg Stretch
3) Squatting Leg Stretch
4) Front Kick
5) Kick 45 Degree Angle To Knee
6) Cross Over Stomp Kick
7) Side Kick Edge of Foot
8) Side kick ball of foot
9) Squat kick
10) Back kick
11) Grabbing double hold front heel kick
12) Knee Strike Kick
13) Push ups and Jump Ups
14) Body Twist
15) Breathing Exercises

Which is from 2004. Is your list from the late 50's?

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo Yes. It is based on the teachings of first-generation students who trained in the late 1950s.

 

Ittsukan Dojo They are both very similar. Mine toe touch includes the backbend also, so it is one exercise and then includes the back kick. I teach both heel kick and toe rip.

 

Bill Pogue we had 11 basics and 5 kicks when i started in 1965. soon after , we converted to 15 basics and 8 kicks. i added back kick and kin geri to make it 10. plus specialty kicks developed in detroit dojo. i now teach side thrust kick since its better than side snap kick in basics and wansu (shimabuku's films appear to be side thrust in wansu and since we do not have it in any other kata, thats where i leave it) for application and very few can ever get the side snap kick down correctly. i leave side snap in sunsu. if you can't do the side snap right by the time you get to sunsu, shame on you. my measure of right+ can break 4'

 

Bill Pogue one inch pine boards with side snap from cocked position. no wind ups or body english.

 

Larry Beno Wow Bill. Really, some of the hard core stuff we get from you is eye opening to say the least.

 

Ralph Hernandez I learned 15 basics...and 9 kicks...year's later more kicks were added...but there wasn't a hole lot..in the early 70ties...and nobody really knew all the Katas..not even weapons...that came years later...Master Nagle in those day's was more on fighting than kata...It was the caveman erra when I learned Isshinryu...lollol...

Bottom of Form 1

 

The recent discussion on the charts makes me realize how much is left unsaid about our differing practices in Isshinryu.

From a now very past discussion.

 

Upper/Lower Body Chart - Agena Dojo 1972

My own practice goes back 30 years and the manner in which the charts are used in my program remains consistent in how Isshinryu was shared with me.  In fact, until I asked the question the other day, outside of realizing there were differing charts of techniques for the upper body and the lower body, I was unaware how others in Isshinryu approach them in training. In fact over my years, I keep discovering new items always before my nose, so close you don’t see they’re there.

From what people have posted on the Original Isshinryu list and on Pleasant Isshinryu its clear there are layers of answers that all fall under Isshinryu practice.  It seems to me the indisputable fact that Shimabuku Tatsuo used standard upper body and lower body charts his training, but the placement of their training in the various Isshinryu programs has varied. 

That does not mean the different answers are right or wrong. I believe for the most part all of us are working towards the same goal, excellence in technique and application in their Isshinryu. But I would suspect each is following the path of our seniors, and less than critical analysis has been applied to determine the optimal answer. Nor do I believe there should be one optimal answer.

I think Jim made a good point, just intense practice of any one aspect of our system won’t guarantee that progress will occur. 

For one thing I find it interesting that two individuals from the same crucible, Tom Lewis and Sherman Harrill, both training in Agena in the late 50’s early 60’s developed their transmission of Isshinryu in so very different ways, even to the usage of the Charts.

The charts of Tom Lewis

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-charts-upper-body-lower-body.html 

Charles Murray on the Chart changes under Tom Lewis

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2019/02/charles-on-charts-02-11-2004_22.html

Possible chart 1 changes for the black belt

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2019/04/for-dan-other-possibilities-for-chart-i.html

Charts of other instructors

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2023/03/upper-and-lower-body-chart.html

The recent discussion on the charts makes me realize how much is left unsaid about our differing practices in Isshinryu.

From a now very past discussion.

 

Upper/Lower Body Chart - Agena Dojo 1972

My own practice goes back 30 years and the manner in which the charts are used in my program remains consistent in how Isshinryu was shared with me.  In fact, until I asked the question the other day, outside of realizing there were differing charts of techniques for the upper body and the lower body, I was unaware how others in Isshinryu approach them in training. In fact over my years, I keep discovering new items always before my nose, so close you don’t see they’re there.

From what people have posted on the Original Isshinryu list and on Pleasant Isshinryu its clear there are layers of answers that all fall under Isshinryu practice.  It seems to me the indisputable fact that Shimabuku Tatsuo used standard upper body and lower body charts his training, but the placement of their training in the various Isshinryu programs has varied. 

That does not mean the different answers are right or wrong. I believe for the most part all of us are working towards the same goal, excellence in technique and application in their Isshinryu. But I would suspect each is following the path of our seniors, and less than critical analysis has been applied to determine the optimal answer. Nor do I believe there should be one optimal answer.

I think Jim made a good point, just intense practice of any one aspect of our system won’t guarantee that progress will occur. 

For one thing I find it interesting that two individuals from the same crucible, Tom Lewis and Sherman Harrill, both training in Agena in the late 50’s early 60’s developed their transmission of Isshinryu in so very different ways, even to the usage of the Charts.

The charts of Tom Lewis

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-charts-upper-body-lower-body.html 

Charles Murray on the Chart changes under Tom Lewis

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2019/02/charles-on-charts-02-11-2004_22.html

Possible chart 1 changes for the black belt

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2019/04/for-dan-other-possibilities-for-chart-i.html

Charts of other instructors

https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2023/03/upper-and-lower-body-chart.html

Uechi and Uzeu on Isshinryu Kicks

 

Tsuyoshi Uechi 8th dan Isshinryu Karate(traditional okinawan karate) all Isshinryu kicks here

 

 

Keri Waza-Isshinryu HD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nznlnRs8kY&t=34s 

 

 

 

 

Angi Uzeu Kicking

https://youtu.be/8cIE_cJHAa0

 

 

Top of Form 1

Andy Sloane

 

These are the kicks that Uechi Sensei teaches at Camp Foster and his dojo in Misato, Okinawa City.

 

He performs them in a more thrusting-type motion moving forward and more snapping-type motion moving backwards.

 

Bill Pogue

 

the chart 2 kicks are only very basic actions.

 there are many variations and other kicks not in the basics or kata.

 

a side thrust kick is in wansu in my humble opinion although most do a side snap.

 some do a forward angle kick like i first learned.

 sliding back kick,

 spinning back kick,

 side thrust kick and roundhouse kicks are all very effective

 

and I taught those with the explanation that they weren't in the basic curriculum, but now are part of the style.

 

I was in detroit when angi uezu learned the various kicks from Willie Adams and then put them in his curriculum and on his tapes.

 

Mr Uechi was a shodan when i was in okinawa and a very nice man- good karate,.

 

 

All, the Keri Waza being shown by Tsuyoshi Uechi, on Okinawa, are probably very close to what Shimabuku Kichero taught. Uechi does teach on Okinawa today, and a ‘grand’ student- Andy Sloan does teach with him.

 (although I am of the opinion that Isshinryu may not continue long there, too much effort towards foreign students and not enough to Okinawan students the possible answer to that)

 

The lower body chart I used was the same I studied in Tom Lewis’ dojo in Salisbury. Which is the same Charlie studied there too.

 

When I joined the internet in the late 80s and started talking with Isshinryu, I quickly learned there were many different versions for the kicking.

 

As I wasn’t associated with anyone else, I saw no reason to change. The chart we use actually has about 90% of the kicks on Okinawa. The rest are more obscure IMO and not as likely answers how to kick.

 

The one Uechi shows are at times somewhat different, but just with the variation of the themes. IMO there is no right answer, there are just those who make their answer right.

 

Tom Lewis Dojo Original Lower Body Combinations

 

1.     Front Snap Kick

2.     Knee Strike (45degrees)

3.     Front Kick (Side)

4.     Cross Kick

5.     Side Snap Kick

6.     Heel Strike (Knee)

7.     Knee Strike

8.     Rear Kick

9.     Side Kick (45 degrees rear)

10.   Squat Kick

11.   Side Kick (on  Floor)

12.     Front (from floor)

13.  Double Jump Kick

14.      Roundhouse Kick

15.      Side Kick (Rear 45 degrees), Rear Kick

 

 

Expanding on the Lower Body Chart Exercises

 

The process of learning never stops.

 

Let me give an example. Last night Mike was putting the kids through some of our kihon from Me. Lewis’s lower body chart. Of course Kihon, while referring to basic exercises, are also fire breathing techniques.

 

Specifically those techniques were the front thrust kick from your back on the floor and the side thrust kick on your side on the floor. While defensive in nature they teach you to defend yourself from the disadvantaged position on the ground.

 

I began them my first night and I still teach them within the first 4 nights. They are not beginning techniques and are regular drills, Crossing the legs to protect the groin, raising yourself to your elbows so you can shift around to face the attacker, and of course learning the front thrust kick and the side thrust kick from the floor. With the groin and the knee as targets. Then becoming the target to allow the youth to have a shifting target to move towards.