Thursday, March 2, 2023

Upper and Lower Body Chart

 

 Upper and Lower Body Chart in Agena


Back om the early 1990s, on Pleasant Isshinryu ,There was a discussion about what basic charts people used. This is what was discussed.

 

 

Albert Madyto KARATE FRIENDS

A question for our senior sensei. Were the 15 upper body basics and eight lower body basics set in stone from the beginning, were there changes, additions or deletions. How were they practiced. Thank you

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https://www.facebook.com/carl.miller.77964?fref=ufi

 

Carl Miller Lol. Obviously not set in stone because I was taught 15 upper and 9 lower.

 

I think slight variations happened just from memory. No YouTube when I or anyone before us had to rely on.

 

Victor Donald Smith In 1974 when I originally learned them there were 15 upper body and 15 lower body, I still teach them that way.


Original Lower Body Combinations

1. Front Snap Kick
2. Knee Strike (45degrees)
3. Front Kick (Side)
4. Cross Kick
5. Side Snap Kick
6. Heel Strike (Knee)
7. Knee Strike
8. Rear Kick
9. Side Kick (45 degrees rear)
10. Squat Kick
11. Side Kick (on Floor)
12. Front Thrust (from floor)
13. Double Jump Kick
14. Roundhouse Kick
15. Side Kick (Rear 45 degrees), Rear Kick

Original Upper Body Combinations

1. RFF Right Punch
2. RFF Right Uppercut
3. LFF Right Punch
4. LFF Right Uppercut
5. RFB Left Low Block, Right Punch
6. RFB Left Side Block, Right Punch
7. RFB Left Arm Block, Right Spear
8. RFB Left High Block, Right Punch
9. RFB Left Open Hand Block, Right Uppercut
10. RFB Left Bridge Strike (Nose), Right Punch
11. LFF Left Low Block 5 Punches
12. LFF Left Side Block 5 Punches
13. LFF Right Roundhouse Punch, Left (Same)
14. LFF Left Open Low Block, Right Shuto
15. Break Bear Hug

 

John Kerker I think the upper body basics (chart 1) have pretty much stayed the same, it's the lower body basics (chart 2) I see different, many have forgone the stretches and balance drills and added kicks.

 

Matthew Whitley Would you be able to send me chart 2? I currently only have the 8 kicks and nothing else....

 

Mark Lahti In 1974 I remember a conversation between Master Pogue and another black belt. They were discussing the kin geri and how it had been dropped from the isshinryu basics, but our dojo would train in it and "utilize it in a manner so that our opponents feel subject to intercourse in an upward direction" (Paraphrasing). I still prefer the kin geri.

 

Pete Mills Any body can change them, but I teach them just like Master Shimabuku taught in our dojo in 1966. They are posted on my web page.

 

John Kerker By the way....There is no reason to change them, and they serve there purpose and work very well if trained properly.

 

Dan Jason Price In 1966 when I started, we learned 15 upper body and 15 lower body, I still teach them that way.

 

Andy Sloane There were 15 lower-body basics to go along with the 15 upper-body basics. Why some people decided to remove the exercises and the stretching from the lower-body chart is a mystery.

 

Ittsukan Dojo From an Agena dojo handout 1964/65. 15 upper, 14 lower. The back kick is missing and "puck" kick should be push (heel) kick. Deep knee bends has been changed to toe touches as the knee bends can cause injury.




Andy Sloane And when the back kick was added a few years later, it became 15 (again). But there were 15 in the late 1950s, so there was a slight modification to them in the early 1960s, it seems.

 

Ittsukan Dojo Andy Sloane , thanks. Do you know what the difference was between the late 50s list and this mid 60s list? The 8 standard kicks are on the mid 60s list. Was it an exercise that was dropped?

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, I have it as:

1. Toe touch stretch
2. Back bend
3. Standing leg stretch
4. Squatting leg stretch
5. Front kick
6. Angle kick
7. Cross-over kick
8. Side kick (heel/blade of foot)
9. Side kick (ball of foot)
10. Squat kick
11. Toe-rip kick
12. Knee smash kick
13. Pushups (on knuckles)
14. Body twist
15. Deep breathing

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, What I do for my students is I combine #1 and #2 because their movements are similar to #15. That makes my #1 a 2-part exercise and frees up a space to put the back kick in the sequence. I teach the heel thrust instead of the toe-rip kick as part of the basics because that's what it was changed to in the 1960s. I still teach toe-rip kick in Sunsu kata though.

 

Ittsukan Dojo The most recent list I have is


1) Toe Touch Stretch
2) Standing Leg Stretch
3) Squatting Leg Stretch
4) Front Kick
5) Kick 45 Degree Angle To Knee
6) Cross Over Stomp Kick
7) Side Kick Edge of Foot
8) Side kick ball of foot
9) Squat kick
10) Back kick
11) Grabbing double hold front heel kick
12) Knee Strike Kick
13) Push ups and Jump Ups
14) Body Twist
15) Breathing Exercises


Which is from 2004. Is your list from the late 50's?

 

Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo Yes. It is based on the teachings of first-generation students who trained in the late 1950s.

 

Ittsukan Dojo They are both very similar. Mine toe touch includes the backbend also, so it is one exercise and then includes the back kick. I teach both heel kick and toe rip.

 

Bill Pogue we had 11 basics and 5 kicks when i started in 1965. soon after , we converted to 15 basics and 8 kicks. i added back kick and kin geri to make it 10. plus specialty kicks developed in detroit dojo. i now teach side thrust kick since its better than side snap kick in basics and wansu (shimabuku's films appear to be side thrust in wansu and since we do not have it in any other kata, thats where i leave it) for application and very few can ever get the side snap kick down correctly. i leave side snap in sunsu. if you can't do the side snap right by the time you get to sunsu, shame on you. my measure of right+ can break 4'

 

Bill Pogue one inch pine boards with side snap from cocked position. no wind ups or body english.

 

Larry Beno Wow Bill. Really, some of the hard core stuff we get from you is eye opening to say the least.

 

Ralph Hernandez I learned 15 basics...and 9 kicks...year's later more kicks were added...but there wasn't a hole lot..in the early 70ties...and nobody really knew all the Katas..not even weapons...that came years later...Master Nagle in those day's was more on fighting than kata...It was the caveman erra when I learned Isshinryu...lollol...

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