Back
om the early 1990s, on Pleasant Isshinryu ,There was a discussion about what
basic charts people used. This is what was discussed.
Albert
Mady to KARATE
FRIENDS
A question for our senior sensei. Were
the 15 upper body basics and eight lower body basics set in stone from the
beginning, were there changes, additions or deletions. How were they practiced.
Thank you
https://www.facebook.com/carl.miller.77964?fref=ufi
Carl Miller Lol.
Obviously not set in stone because I was taught 15 upper and 9 lower.
I think slight variations happened just
from memory. No YouTube when I or anyone before us had to rely on.
Victor Donald Smith
In 1974 when I originally learned them there were 15 upper body and 15 lower
body, I still teach them that way.
Original Lower Body Combinations
1. Front
Snap Kick
2. Knee Strike (45degrees)
3. Front Kick (Side)
4. Cross Kick
5. Side Snap Kick
6. Heel Strike (Knee)
7. Knee Strike
8. Rear Kick
9. Side Kick (45 degrees rear)
10. Squat Kick
11. Side Kick (on Floor)
12. Front Thrust (from floor)
13. Double Jump Kick
14. Roundhouse Kick
15. Side Kick (Rear 45 degrees), Rear Kick
Original Upper Body Combinations
1. RFF
Right Punch
2. RFF Right Uppercut
3. LFF Right Punch
4. LFF Right Uppercut
5. RFB Left Low Block, Right Punch
6. RFB Left Side Block, Right Punch
7. RFB Left Arm Block, Right Spear
8. RFB Left High Block, Right Punch
9. RFB Left Open Hand Block, Right Uppercut
10. RFB Left Bridge Strike (Nose), Right Punch
11. LFF Left Low Block 5 Punches
12. LFF Left Side Block 5 Punches
13. LFF Right Roundhouse Punch, Left (Same)
14. LFF Left Open Low Block, Right Shuto
15. Break Bear Hug
John Kerker I think the upper body basics (chart 1) have pretty
much stayed the same, it's the lower body basics (chart 2) I see different,
many have forgone the stretches and balance drills and added kicks.
Matthew Whitley Would you be able to send me chart 2? I currently
only have the 8 kicks and nothing else....
Mark Lahti In 1974 I remember a conversation between Master
Pogue and another black belt. They were discussing the kin geri and how it had
been dropped from the isshinryu basics, but our dojo would train in it and
"utilize it in a manner so that our opponents feel subject to intercourse
in an upward direction" (Paraphrasing). I still prefer the kin geri.
Pete Mills Any body can
change them, but I teach them just like Master Shimabuku taught in our dojo in
1966. They are posted on my web page.
John Kerker By the way....There is no reason to change them, and
they serve there purpose and work very well if trained properly.
Dan Jason Price In 1966 when I started, we learned 15 upper body
and 15 lower body, I still teach them that way.
Andy Sloane There
were 15 lower-body basics to go along with the 15 upper-body basics. Why some
people decided to remove the exercises and the stretching from the lower-body
chart is a mystery.
Ittsukan Dojo From an Agena
dojo handout 1964/65. 15 upper, 14 lower. The back kick is missing and
"puck" kick should be push (heel) kick. Deep knee bends has been
changed to toe touches as the knee bends can cause injury.
Andy Sloane And
when the back kick was added a few years later, it became 15 (again). But there
were 15 in the late 1950s, so there was a slight modification to them in the
early 1960s, it seems.
Ittsukan Dojo Andy Sloane , thanks. Do you know what the difference was
between the late 50s list and this mid 60s list? The 8 standard kicks are on
the mid 60s list. Was it an exercise that was dropped?
Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, I have it as:
1. Toe
touch stretch
2. Back bend
3. Standing leg stretch
4. Squatting leg stretch
5. Front kick
6. Angle kick
7. Cross-over kick
8. Side kick (heel/blade of foot)
9. Side kick (ball of foot)
10. Squat kick
11. Toe-rip kick
12. Knee smash kick
13. Pushups (on knuckles)
14. Body twist
15. Deep breathing
Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo, What I do for
my students is I combine #1 and #2 because their movements are similar to #15.
That makes my #1 a 2-part exercise and frees up a space to put the back kick in
the sequence. I teach the heel thrust instead of the toe-rip kick as part of
the basics because that's what it was changed to in the 1960s. I still teach
toe-rip kick in Sunsu kata though.
Ittsukan Dojo The most recent
list I have is
1) Toe
Touch Stretch
2) Standing Leg Stretch
3) Squatting Leg Stretch
4) Front Kick
5) Kick 45 Degree Angle To Knee
6) Cross Over Stomp Kick
7) Side Kick Edge of Foot
8) Side kick ball of foot
9) Squat kick
10) Back kick
11) Grabbing double hold front heel kick
12) Knee Strike Kick
13) Push ups and Jump Ups
14) Body Twist
15) Breathing Exercises
Which is from 2004. Is your list from the
late 50's?
Andy Sloane Ittsukan Dojo Yes. It is
based on the teachings of first-generation students who trained in the late
1950s.
Ittsukan Dojo They are both
very similar. Mine toe touch includes the backbend also, so it is one exercise
and then includes the back kick. I teach both heel kick and toe rip.
Bill Pogue we
had 11 basics and 5 kicks when i started in 1965. soon after , we converted to
15 basics and 8 kicks. i added back kick and kin geri to make it 10. plus
specialty kicks developed in detroit dojo. i now teach side thrust kick since
its better than side snap kick in basics and wansu (shimabuku's films appear to
be side thrust in wansu and since we do not have it in any other kata, thats
where i leave it) for application and very few can ever get the side snap kick
down correctly. i leave side snap in sunsu. if you can't do the side snap right
by the time you get to sunsu, shame on you. my measure of right+ can break 4'
Bill Pogue one
inch pine boards with side snap from cocked position. no wind ups or body
english.
Larry Beno Wow
Bill. Really, some of the hard core stuff we get from you is eye opening to say
the least.
Ralph Hernandez I
learned 15 basics...and 9 kicks...year's later more kicks were added...but
there wasn't a hole lot..in the early 70ties...and nobody really knew all the
Katas..not even weapons...that came years later...Master Nagle in those day's
was more on fighting than kata...It was the caveman erra when I learned
Isshinryu...lollol...
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