An Interview with Katsuhiko Shinzato - Kashiba Juku

 

 

Below is a translation of the interview with Shinzato Sensei published in Slovenian newspaper Dnevnik.

 

When it is a question of life or death there are no rules

Karate (empty hand) was developed as a self-defense martial art in an environment of a hundreds of years long oppression where bearing arms was prohibited. Even though Jatsuhiko Shinzato (age 69) who has been practicing karate for over 50 years is not well-known world-wide he has an exceptional reputation in Okinawa, the cradle of karate.

Contrary to other great Okinawan masters who are still alive and most of which went all over the world Shinzato has for long decades, most days for six hours, practiced karate and kept developing it away from public eye. The "western" world first got to know him when his videos appeared on the web site Youtube after a report by the Okinawan TV. A calm and modest man, Shinzato, who is approaching his seventies, is still vital and fit like a 25 years old.

Mr. Shinzato, what brought you to Slovenia?

Already several years ago I enjoyed very much practicing karate with Borut Mauhler and his karate students. I come to Slovenia again at their invitation and this time several of my students from Okinawa accompany me. The purpose of this visit is the participation at a several-day karate seminar of the so called Shorin-ryu style of karate (the most important style of Okinawan karate that was developed in 1800 and is considered the predecessor of the modern Japanese karate, Ed.) that has numerous karate participants from USA, France,
Israel, and Slovenia.

Not long ago an encyclopedia of Okinawa karate of which you were one of the contributors was published in Japan. Can you tell us more about this work which is the first extensive
book in the world about the history of Okinawan karate?

I have been often asked to write a book on karate philosophy and training methods. A few years ago I felt that it was time to sum up my views and insights of karate based on my long karate experience. We started collecting information for the Encyclopaedia of Okinawan karate and kobudo (martial arts using different weapons like stick, sai, nunchaku, Ed.) in 2003 and last month the Encyclopaedia was published by Kashiwashobo, a publisher in Tokyo. It covers the history of the traditional Okinawan karate personal profiles of contemporary karate masters, commentaries on old karate written materials,
and a chronology of karate.

Among many historical documents that were destroyed in Okinawa during WWII were also many written documents about karate. Did that cause difficulties in the creation of the
Encyclopaedia?

Because of a lack of historical documents on Okinawan karate, we had a difficulty discovering the origin of Okinawan karate. Some are of the opinion that the present karate originated in Okinawa and that it further evolved under the influence of Chinese martial arts. Others believe that it was brought from China centuries ago and it was gradually adapted to the Okinawan way of life. Both theories seem reasonable. 

However, the latter is more acceptable to me.

It took a long time to confirm the birth and death dates of masters from old times because dates published in numerous books on karate differ. For example, Kanga Sakugawa (1786-1867), one of the key figures in a karate history, was an expert of Chinese martial arts. False speculations about his life and his relationship with his students have spread in the world. It has been generally accepted that he died at the age of 58 in China. However, he was supposed to have served, after he had supposedly died, as a royal officer on the Yaeyama Island which is a part of the Okinawan islands.

Books about karate and other martial arts are often full of myths and anecdotes about incredible and superhuman powers of legendary masters. How much truth is in these myths?

It is common that legendary heroes were described in incredible myths and anecdotes. Similar is true for karate experts. Chojun Miyagi, the founder of the Goju-ryu karate (a style of karate which is quite wide spread in the world) was known as a strong and tough karate man. According to an oral tradition he was capable of crushing a piece of raw meat in his hand (this is not possible, Ed.). His nick name was "shishitui' (the meat crusher). He denied his supposed superpowers in an interview with an Okinawan newspaper in 1936.
In a way this proves that most anecdotes or legends about karate masters were invented
by people who idolized certain individuals as "supermen".

Okinawa is considered the cradle of karate. On the other hand Okinawan culture and people are very peace-loving? How could karate and kobudo develop in such an environment?

How did karate develop through history?

Okinawan karate was developed as an art of self-defense, not as a combat martial art. On the other hand, Japanese martial arts like Kenjutsu (the art of sword) or Kobujutsu (the art
of weapons) were created for attack, as fighting means for defeating enemies and for protecting and supporting the military. This means that these are attacking martial arts in
the literal sense of the word.

Unlike samurai in Japan, royal servants in the kingdom of the Ryukyus (the old name for Okinawa, Ed.) were prohibited to carry arms in the 15-th century. The Ryukyu kingdom
never fought any enemy until the Satsuma (Kagoshima) clan invaded Okinawa in the early 17-th century. The ban to carry weapons continued after the occupation by Satsuma and
lasted until the end of the Okinawan kingdom in 1879. According to a common belief these historical events contributed the most to the development of karate in Okinawa.

It is possible that karate was practiced in the past in order to develop invincible spirit against the oppression of Satsuma, but yet not to rise against their tyranny.  In order to serve their master, royal servants needed a trained body and spirit. Karate is traditionally understood as an art of self-defense and not as an attacking skill. This is the main difference between Okinawan martial arts and those developed in Japan.

You have been practicing karate for over 50 years. What attracted you to karate in your
youth?

After World War II Okinawa was under the USA administration until 1972. The government established a scholarship fund for young Okinawans as a policy of reconcilement. Almost
all young men, including me, hoped to get a scholarship for a study in the USA, which was the dreamland for us. When I entered the University of the Ryukyus in 1957 I started
learning karate. After I finished my undergraduate studies I continued at a graduate school in the US where I continued practicing it.

What is the optimal age to start practicing karate?

That depends on the goals of every individual. If one plans to practice karate as a sport in order to get trophies, one should start as early as possible. For somebody who wants to
use it as means of self-defense there is no time or age limit to start practicing. As long as one practices, one's knowledge should be enough to defend oneself effectively.

What insight about karate have you gained in your long karate practice and which teachers have influenced you the most?

Like other martial arts, karate practice helps, through continuing practice, with the physical and mental growth. The more we practice it, the more we can improve our abilities. I believe that karate practice enables us to develop extraordinary skills which can be used in a specific situation for self-defense even when our body ages. It is this realization that "captured" me for karate practice until the end of my life!

The master that has had the greatest influence on me was Chokei Kishaba (1931-2000). In honor of his unique training methods, we call our study circle "Kishaba Juku" (Kishaba private school, Ed.) after his last name.

Is karate as popular in Okinawa today as it was in the past? How many karate dojos are presently in Okinawa?

A surprising number, over 300 clubs or dojos. It is a fact that karate is much more popular in Okinawa now than it was in the past. It is practiced for health, for pastime, for competition, or as means of self-defense.

Is there a connection between Okinawan karate styles and China's martial arts?

It is rather easy to establish that karate's beginnings were in China. The names of all katas (a form of defense against an imaginary opponent, Ed.) sound Chinese even though
they are not pronounced the same way as in China. The way they sound does not resemble

Okinawan or Japanese in the least. Despite that it is hard to identify a connection between the Okinawan karate with Chinese martial arts, at least as far as the Shorin-ryu style is concerned. Karate has been changing through centuries, from
generation to generation, until it became in its appearance completely different from Chinese styles of martial arts.

Is the present way of training karate different from the ways it was practiced before WWII? If yes, what lead to these differences?

Before WWII karate was traditionally practiced as an art of self-defense while the modern karate is practiced as a competitive sport. Originally karate was trained to acquire vital skills in order to knock down an opponent with one deadly strike aimed at the most
vulnerable points of human body. This kind of strikes are prohibited in modern karate which observes strict rules for safety. The traditional karate practitioners are always exposed to risks while modern karate contestants enjoy demonstrating all kinds of fancy
techniques.

Unlike the competitive karate which does not allow strikes to vital points of the human body these very strikes are still practiced in the traditional karate. In a situation where it is a question of life or death there are no rules. A traditional karate practitioner is always
aware of that. This difference develops two types of karate men, a calm fighter and somebody who goes after trophies.


In Slovenia people are mostly familiar with the Japanese Shotokan karate style and with newer, sport oriented karate styles. What is the most important difference between the
Okinawan karate and modern forms of karate?

Shotokan style is one of the derivatives of Shuri-te which started in Okinawa with master Anko Itosu (1831-1915). Itosu changed the ancient katas for the purpose of physical education in schools. All Shorin styles (belonging to the group Shuri-te and together with
Naha-te and Tomari-te form three different groups of schools of Okinawan karate, Ed.) and also some other Okinawan styles developed from a Shuri-te version of karate. This means that formally, as far as katas are concerned, Shotokan style is almost the same as
Shorin-ryu.

What then is the difference between them?

It is exactly by the way they are practiced and by their understanding of katas that the older styles differ from the newer ones. While in Okinawa the practice of katas is presented as an effective way to enable one for self-defense it is a question whether the modern way of practicing katas makes this possible. On the other hand the Okinawan way of practicing katas usually does not prepare for winning in sports karate, which is the main goal in Japan. In Okinawa free sparring is considered as a verification of one's
understanding of katas which are the central part of training. Thus the emphasis is on the understanding of katas and not on fighting.

Due to sport oriented karate styles and more and more popular fighting sports such as K1, Pride, and UFC, many people are convinced that karate is useless as a combat martial art.
Is this true?

If we find ourselves in a life threatening situation we can use any attack or defense technique learned through the practice of katas. In the show business of sports combat these techniques which are effective in real situations are not allowed, due to strict rules,
and only officially permitted techniques can be used. Every show is a game in which one "wins" or "loses". In real life, when it is a question of life or death, karate techniques enable our body to react spontaneously for defense. I am convinced that the traditional
karate represents a separate category among all sports that you mentioned.

In karate a well known saying is that "in karate there is no fist attack" ("karate ni sente
nashi"). How should a karate-ka react in a dangerous situation?

That there is no first attack in karate is a well-known rule. It is usually interpreted from a moral viewpoint. It is expected from karate practitioners to never behave aggressively towards others. This means that violence is not allowed in any situation. The question then is how to react in a situation where we are attacked? One does not need to explain that in case there is no other option, one can defend oneself to a degree which makes the attacker give up his aggressive intentions. The same can be said about other martial arts.

Karate practice is unique among martial arts. A careful study of karate katas shows that it is useful both for defense and offense. When attacked different kinds of techniques act spontaneously where a defensive technique can automatically change into an offensive
one. Or, different strikes and blocks practiced in katas are useful and enable a natural and spontaneous movement. A first attack cannot be the best form of defense against a well-trained karate practitioner. As you know two attacking techniques cannot be executed
simultaneously therefore the attacker finds himself at a disadvantage. It is exactly because of these practical characteristics of karate that all intentions of an aggressive attacker turn out to be paradoxical.

Kata is one of the main practice methods in Okinawan. On the other hand, many people think that the training of katas is completely unnecessary and useless. Are these claims true?

There are three steps one has to pass through in karate practice in order to be capable enough to defend oneself effectively. The first step which takes a long time is to practice katas in order to develop the body and to learn different striking and blocking techniques.
Katas are practiced at this stage in a square sequence of moves which can be compared to Kaisho (the square style of Chinese handwriting or Kanji, Ed.). In the second step physical capabilities and correct way of moving, necessary for self-defense, are developed. The practice of katas at this stage is "roundish" and can be compared to Gyosho  (the semicursive style of Chinese handwriting). If an individual is persistent he will be able to arrive to the third step where he can move spontaneously and can use every move as a

defense or as an attack. Using our muscles, joints, breathing, and brain we can generate an exceptional natural power and are at the same time ready for a fast and effective (re)action. This means that the knowledge of katas at the highest level opens many
possibilities for reacting in dangerous situations. At this stage katas look like Sosho (the Chinese handwriting that an individual develops through years of practice, Ed.).

For those who criticize the practice of karate through kata I could say that they are still far from the third and final level of the knowledge of kata through which our body shapes to the level at which karate can be used as an effective martial art.

 

The commercialization of karate which is present especially in the western world and also in Okinawa is also tied to acquiring different degree belts, depending on an individual's level of knowledge.

As the saying goes, tastes are different. Some people who practice karate do not care
about any kind of ranking system or status symbols while others are not satisfied without
that. Different belt colors are of no help in desperate situations that everybody wants to
avoid. The business of karate is getting more and more popular. As long as there is
supply and demand, karate will also exist on the commercial market.

You are in Slovenia already for the second time. What are your impressions of Slovenia
which is rather similar to Okinawa? Due to its small size Slovenia has been like Okinawa
under the influence of bigger neighbors and yet succeeded to preserve its culture and
language.

You can be proud to live in a country of such natural and cultural beauty. Even though we
live on a small territory, both Slovenians and Okinawans can be proud. With our friends
we share the enthusiasm for the kindness of Slovenians which reminds us of the Okinawan
hospitality.