Kyan Style Seisan – a study in derivative variation

 

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Kyan Style Seisan – a study in derivative variation

 

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Greg Garten Hey, now I know what Andy Sloane looks like! Interesting collection of the same kata. The five versions before TS's version surprised me as to the number of different stances involved in each version. One of them (forget which one, 1st or 2nd) looked extremely narrow. But it may have been caused by the camera angle. I have some questions about the various IR versions but will have to come back to them when I can properly form them in my head.

 

 Victor Donald Smith As for the direct students of Kyan Chotoku:

1.We don’t know whether he taught those students as the Agricultural College the same way as he taught at his home group.

2. Age and other factors might have made a difference in their practice.

3. The changes seen might have been intentional on the part of the Instructor’s Kyan taught, their own personal development.

I guess what you see is what you see.

 

Neal Simpson It was good to see Sensei Lewis’ Seisan. IMO it’s probably the best of any of the first generation students that I have seen, especially given his age at the time of filming. Thank you for sharing it.

 

Victor Donald Smith As this was prepared for my students I did not include any but the Tom Lewis lineage (as he was my instructor). It was not meant to be a comprehensive USA Isshinryu listing.

 

Bill Pogue Lewis looks good

 

Neal Simpson Bill Pogue - that’s most likely the best Seisan I’ve seen from one of the first generation students. Very well done.

 

 

Dano Rozen Awesome contribution here. Next, I’d like to see a comparison of the Isshinryu Seiunchin compared to that of the Goju from which it was taken. It appears alike but with the biggest contrast in that the Isshinryu Seiunchin for some reason leaves out a whole sequence that is repeated (twice in two different directions) in Gojuryu creating more balance and symmetry whereas the Isshinryu one seems to be have a noticeable void.

 

Victor Donald Smith One does wonder if the case of Miyagi teaching Shimabuku Sensei was actually he shared the correct version. LOL

 

Dano Rozen Victor Donald Smith If borrowed and disseminated wrongly, it makes it all the more difficult to understand since Goju predates and was prominent on a tiny Island.

 

Victor Donald Smith I won't cry about Goju. Of course my remark was in Jest, just saying.

 

Victor Donald Smith Just a fun comparison, here is Shimabuku's brother Ezio perfomring his Seiunchin. He was not Isshinryu but you can guess where he got this version from.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXX6HgrCeBU

youtube.com

Eizo Shimabuku Seiunchin Kata

 

Dano Rozen Victor Donald Smith a little difficult to make out, unfortunately, as I so enjoy watching Enzo, but appears same as Isshinryu ...

 

Victor Donald Smith Dano Rozen This is a poor video,however it is what it is and yes it appears to be Tatsuos kata.

 

Dojo TokyoMushinkan Victor Donald Smith i have seen the program of a tournament in kyushu where some guys came up from okinawa as guests, and shimabukuro eizo was listed as the representative of isshin-ryu. there seems to be something missing from the history that is publicly presented. if the brothers had a falling out, it would make sense to hide the isshin-ryu connection, though...

 

Dano Rozen Dojo TokyoMushinkan That’s simply others apparently confusing the two brothers ...

 

Dojo TokyoMushinkan Dano Rozen no, it was in printed material and the guy who showed it to md also had the business card of eizo that he said he got at the tournament... but whatever... tatsuo wasn't even at the tournament, apparently.

 

Andy Sloane the "for some reason" is because Tatsuo cut out what he deemed to be wasted motion and superfluous techniques. Why do something 4 times when it can be done twice and still have the same impact?

 

Andy Sloane Dano Rozen "Goju-ryu" was Miyagi's interpretation of the kata that he learned. He changed a great number of things from the way he learned them. Kyoda Juhatsu more closely kept what he learned from Higashionna as it was taught to him. Moreover, it seems that Miyagi made further changes to his system and most of, if not all of, the Goju-ryu taught in Okinawa is not actually as Miyagi taught/performed it in the latter part of his life.