Joe Swift Article - Kanryo Higonna (Years in China)

 

 

 

Please, just call me Joe... I'm just not comfortable with the whole "Sensei" thing...

Thanks for the kind words and the folllow up questions. I wnjoy them, as they keep me on my toes! :-)

>>> Bishop's book indicates he traveled to China at the age of 23 or
24 years old and returned either at the age of 32 or 40 years old
which puts his training time in from 7 to 18 years. <<<

OK, but I believe that Bishop was working off from the oral history
as passed down to him by his Goju teacher Miyazato Eiichi. As I'll
point out later, there are a number of reasons and immutable facts
why this oral history *must* be taken with a grain of salt.

>>> Your article suggests he only trained for 3 years and thus
probably never moved beyond Sanchin Kata and thus Seiunchin was never
on his dojo sylabus when he returned to Okinawa. <<<

Actually, I "now" believe that Higaonna's teachings revolved around 4
kata that he learned in Okinawa (not China):

1. Sanchin
2. Seisan
3. Sanseiru
4. Suparinpei

It really still is a toss up as to whether or not he really taught
Seiunchin, but still well within the realm of possibility. We know
that Seiunchin was mentioned by Motobu Choki in writing as far back
as 1926 (that's 8 years before the "other" Goju kata like Shisochin,
Seipai, Saifa and Kururunfa were ever mentioned in the history
sections of the old books)... this in itself is a whole post in its
own right and if there is interest I'll go into it.

>>> However, Bishop indicates a kata called "Seyonchin" was. Is this
the same kata or differnet? <<<

Same thing, just spelt different! :-)

To answer your other excellent questions:

>>> How long do you belive Higonna spent in China studying Chun fa
and why? <<<

I'm going with a figure of 3-5 years *MAX*... I'll dig out my notes
and references over the long weekend and post them soon, but please
be prepared for a very long and involved post, probably rivaling even
Victor or Romney in wordiness and long-windedness! :-)

>>> Do you belive he did not study a form related to Seiunchin? <<<

Hard to say, but looking at the evidence in an objective way, I still
believe that his syllabus revolved around the 4 old Okinawan "Naha-
ti" kata. This does not mean that he didn't know or use other kata,
but there is no solid evidence one way or the other right now.

>>> What is yoru opinion of the relationship between Seiunchin & the
Hun Gar form "Fu Hok Sein Yen Kuan" as suggested by Sensei Martinez?
<<<

With all due respect to Martinez Sensei, I am not convinced... I need
to see the "hard proof" before coming to a conclusion, though.

>>> Bishop also mentions another instructor Higonna studied
under "Wan Shin Zan". Could
Higonna picked up the Seiunchin from this person? <<<

Unfortunately, this "Wan Shin Zan" (also called Wai Shinzan or Wai
Xinxian) has never been positively identified, so we can not be sure
what forms he taught to anyone. Funakoshi (quoting his main teacher
Asato Anko) was the first to mention Wai Shinzan as a teacher of
Higaonna. The eminent Gojuryu teacher (and researcher) Higaonna Morio
disagrees, and gives the reasons in his excellent book.

>>> Has your research turned up Higonna's instructors beyond Ru Ru Ko
while he was in China? <<<

No, but his teachers in Okinawa have pretty much been identified and
confirmed: at least Aragaki Seisho, and probably Kojo Taitei as well.

>>> Do you have any Ideas on where Mayagi picked up Seiunchin kata if
he did not learn it from Higonna? <<<

Who knows, maybe he even made it up himself! :-)

>>> The material you share and your research is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, it is really nice to know that my modest work does not go in
vain...

Like I said, I'll post more in a couple of days.

Yours in Budo,

Joe Swift