A prior discussion about which order in where Sanchin kata should be taught.

Unfortunately, I did not save who posted the first post. but I feel it is worth reading.

 

Photographed in the Agena Dojo by Charles Murray

 when he trained there during 1972. He was serving in the USAF on Okinawa and trained as a Sho Dan under Shimabuku Tatsuo.

The Marines were no longer training there, and there were only several American students. The Marines at that time had their own dojo on their base, ant that was being run by Angi Uzeu.

But from the colors this was most likely made by a Marine.

????

I am going to point out in what order we were taught these Kata's after 1961, not before 1961 but after. Most Dojo's in the USA teach San-Chin Kata last, I have preached over and over that San-Chin was taught to us as the 5th Kata, after Wansu. Remember this is a very important Kata to learn, why would you teach it last. another,I see most schools and Association list and teach Ku-San-Ku Sai before Chatan-Yara No Sai. Wrong, after Master Shimabuku Tatsuo learned the Chatan-Yara-No Sai from Sensei Taira Shinken,he started to teach it first and then Ku-San-Ku Sai. There is not listed the Truifa/Tonfa Kata,the Master felt that you could not learn it in one tour and very seldom ever was going to teach you Hama Higa No Truifa Kata. Heck, I finally was able to learn it in my third year.

Ralph Hernandez Thanks for sharing, Sensei, I was thought Sanchin Kata Last and Kusanku Sai first, that's how My Sensei showed me, and I guess Master Nagle past it on that way, I think, most of Jersey learned like me...

John Bartusevics Remember Ralph Sensei, this is after 1961.Sensei Don Nagle was there almost at the start, the Master was going through a lot of changes to make Isshin-Ryu Karate as he wanted it.

Andy Sloane Per Sensei Advincula, who interviewed many of the senior Okinawan students who'd studied with Tatsuo Sensei in the late 1940s and early 1950s, Tatsuo Sensei taught Sanchin last. My sensei, Ed Johnson, trained with Tatsuo Sensei December 1959 to February 1961, and said that he learned Sanchin kata sixth (after Chinto) between January and July 1960. The only three weapons kata that he said he learned in Okinawa were Tokumine no Kun, Kusanku Sai, and Hamahiga no Tuifa. Tatsuo Sensei had not added the other weapons kata to the style by the time my sensei left the island in February 1961. He learned Chatan Yara no Sai, Urashi Bo, and Shishi no Kun from the 1966 film of Tatsuo Sensei while visiting Harold Long's dojo in Tennessee in 1967.

John Bartusevics Vern Miller,you are referring to a time-frame of when the Master took 3 Kata's out, Seiunchin, Naihanchi and Wansu.Master Shimabuku Tatsuo felt that the Marines and a few Sailors were having a hard time learning all the Kata's so he took three out. That was for a short period of time in 1963-64.This was due to the fact of increased Training requirements of the Military, not because they could not get it.

Joe Paden Kaneshi, Tokumine, Maekawa, Ciso have all said Sanchin last. Advincula Sensei says Master Shimabuku told him he taught it last because the prolonged tension would slow the student down. As we know, Master Shimabuku changed many things as more Marines were in the dojo, knowing they wouldn't be there long.

Sensei has told me he did Sanchin 2x every workout in his dojo, but he also does 20x nukite/rips sometimes. What we do in our workout is fine, but we must preserve the system. I teach Sanchin last but many will do it before, but all are taught that originally Sanchin was taught last and sometime during the mid 1960's, Sanchin was taught somewhere in the middle. I also teach the reason why it was changed.

Andy Sloane Sensei Ed Johnson also is of the belief that teaching Sanchin first is counterproductive in getting a new student to loosen up. Most students are typically too stiff to begin with and you don't want them any tighter and slower.

Victor

Just a personal note.  Sanchin was taught to me last, and I have maintained that tradition. Of course, in the long run does it really matter as long as the students gets it and practices what Sanchin offers.