In response to Steve's comments. I will make sure that the next time I am in Denver I will do my best to arrange a visit with you. I do not know if you were aware of Itokazu sensei's visit along with Shimabukuro sensei to the Denver and Colorado Springs area the last week of October. They conducted training in Matayoshi Kobudo and Seibukan Shorin Ryu. Itokazu sensei accompanied Zenpo sensei on a six week trip to the US and Mexico. I spent about one month with them. Soke Matayoshi has entered into an agreement with Zenpo sensei for all Seibukan dojo to follow the Kodokan under Itokazu sensei's direction. Jamal Measara in Germany and I have been active practioners of Matayoshi Kobudo for more than 25 years. Since both Measara sensei and I had become members of the Jinbukan, even though keeping relationships with Matayoshi sensei, we had standardized all Seibukan dojo on Matayoshi kobudo through the Jinbukan. With the need to support the Kodokan and the demise of Jinbukan we are now supporting Matayoshi sensei's son and Itokazu sensei.
I can understand that in training with Gaikiya,Yamashiro and Itokazu sensei that it would be difficult with communications about some aspects of the kobudo training. It is my understanding that the kobudo kata of Matayoshi all begin and end in the close proximity. As I mentioned I will make this a subject of priority when I go to Okinawa in March. I will be training daily with Itokazu sensei to insure our standardization of technique with the Kodokan. I do not know if Steve has ever trained at the Kodokan but it would be close to impossible for more than two people to practice the bo without shuffle stepping to perform a complete bo kata. Perhaps space should be a consideration or was a consideration. I look forward to sharing Matayoshi kobudo with you when I visit Denver.
Response to Sean's comments. Per my comments to my training in Goju Ryu over the years. While I do not claim to be a Goju Ryu practitioner I have dedicated a significant amount of time to the Goju Ryu kata. I will be happy to perform the kata whenever the opportunity arises. Several members of these groups have been
with me to Goju Ryu dojo or have visited with me for training in Goju Ryu kata. Perhaps they will make a comment.
I think it is important to listen to everything your teachers comment on but at the same time if they do not make a comment it does not mean that certain aspects they do not mention are not important. Personally, I have gone years without getting corrections on certain aspects of karate only to find that my performance was okay or that my performance was substandard and I was not ready for more information. I have stated previously that I have never had a Goju Ryu teacher comment on the starting and ending point of a kata but I would not assume that it is not important.
Nicole's comments: I apologize if I seemed demeaning and I certainly do not want to be contradictory. I did ask for opinions and feelings but at the same time I do not think you can object to someone's offer of data rather than feelings to make your point. My request while needing improvement was to say that I have heard your opinions do you have any facts, ancedotes, etc.
I am in total agreement with Steve that this thread has been a good one. I have had to stop and go through my own recollections and kata to insure that feel that my position has a good foundation. On the other hand if I found that my position was weak I would re-evaluate. I stand ready to be corrected when I goto Okinawa and do more research. The wonderful thing about continuing to be a student is that you can learn more and not to have to full lack of knowing. My teacher has been my greatest example of admitting he was wrong on a technique after years of thinking one way and then gaining an understanding that he could do it or understand it better. I am open to being wrong as it means that is one more thing I can get right.
Gambatte
Dan Smith
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Thank you for responding. Please do not take offense to this statement, but I have planned and arranged a trip to Okinawa for the month of April 2005, I will do my own research. I've spent my life researching, interviewing Okinawan/Japanese teachers, and training. The results of research is easily and obviously influenced based on the questions and intent of the interviewer.
If you were to ask any karate-ka whether or not their kata should end and begin in the same spot, they would reply "yes" given that you were referencing a system or kata that obviously begins and ends near the same location. What research is involved in this obvious answer? However, if you were to phrase the question differently, such as: "Sensei please share the most important aspects, components, and purpose of kata or even kata performance." Then I doubt that the beginning and ending on the same spot would be mentioned. I recommend that you more deeply research the true meaning and purpose of Embusen.
You stated that Chris and I offered no proof or substantiation to our opinion. What is 32 years of continuous practice? I doubt that you have put more sweat on the floor than Chris and I. Surely that is worth more than opinion. You mentioned Higaonna Morio Sensei and his books. Dan, I was a personal student of Higaonna Morio and Chris still is... Higaonna Sensei personally converted my Japanese Goju Kai kata to his Okinawan Goju versions of the kata, step by step. Higaonna Sensei stayed in my home for 3-4 day duration annually. I was a personal student of his and received all of my instruction from him personally. I think I have a very clear understanding of how he teaches kata and what he emphasizes. Of course his books contain diagrams, they are instructional reference books, how else would he depict the embusen of the kata contained within the pages?
Dan, I've trained long, hard, and continuously for 32 years in Okinawan Goju Ryu and for 25 years in Kobudo. I still do... I would love to actually "see your personal performance of Matayoshi Kobudo and Goju kata." Please do advise the next time you are in the area. Please share with me where you are at year round and perhaps I can visit you sooner than your next scheduled visit to Colorado. I'm not
interested in others opinions of your ability, I prefer to form my own opinion. No offense intended, but I feel you did try to depict being a highly knowledgeable Goju practitioner and you recited organizations, instructors, and experiences to substantiate it. You made a conscientious effort to prove that you were knowledgeable in Goju, so I want to see if it is true or just your personal opinion. Political posturing, position, years of experience, writing, or trips to Okinawa do not impress me. Actions, ability, humility, and performance on the floor impress me, but very few have done that. All understanding, knowledge, ability, training, and skill becomes plainly visible on the floor. Let's get together soon. Dan, from one budo-ka to another, it is very impersonal and discourteous when you respond in second or third party verbiage.
Sincerely,
Steve Wilson
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Yikes, I may have to duck quickly after this post hits. Once again, I would most closely agree with Sean's previous post that ending exactly on the same crack in the dojo floor with your feet exactly at masubi dachi is highly unlikely. However, If you started your kata on a certain spot(kiten) and obviously ended a foot away or so. Then there would be a problem, Right? But shame, shame on the Sensei!! Because prior to this, he/she, should have been noting some discrepancies in the dachi or the turning angles that would ultimately lead to such an ending.
Once again, Chinen Teruo Sensei has said to me on many times that the Gekkisai Kata are not balanced and you will end the kata slightly to the left of your kiten. He too, does not give much credence into into ending in the exact spot. Close, but not exactly. I believe this is because that some of his own performances of kata (most expresedly Seisan-with it's zuri ashi dachi) can be very dynamic.
As to the cite that Smith-san gave regarding Higaonna & Toguchi Sensei's books regarding embusen as showing the proper pattern. Yes, I agree. But I feel it is a tool used to explain the movement & travel of the kata to the uninitiated (I am amongst them- I found them very confusing for years until one of my students turned the book upside right for me!!).
Embusen to me is like being on a trip following Mapquest. Kiten is like coming home from that trip and expecting to park your car by placing the tires on the same exact spot you had them on when you started. You may have had a smooth trip, but somewhere,somehow,something is going to prevent you from stopping on a dime.......
My best, as always......
Jim Prouty, Jundokan Int'l
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In the cyberdojo, which I seldom participate these days, I have been having an exchange of opinions with Dan Smith. To me Dan offers strong opinions, political/name dropping substantiation, and expertise pertaining to Goju Ryu (he is Seibukan Shorin) kata and Matayoshi Kobudo. I am trying very hard to arrange a face to face training session between Dan and myself so I can see his level of expertise first hand. Even away from the cyberdojo Dan has offered a lot of opinion pertaining to Goju kata and to Kobudo that has gotten back to me. I believe (although I'm not certain) that he has a lot of experience in Shotokan and Shorin. However, he post that he has vast first hand experience and knowledge of Goju. There is a Seibukan member who trains in Kobudo with me. He tells me that Dan's actual performance isn't that high of a level and that his knowledge of Goju is not the level or depth that he shares via written communication. Personally, I do not know, but I want to find out.
I do not know nor do I care who is better or who knows more between Dan and myself. I do care about people who share opinions pertaining to Goju Ryu who have not or do not sweat hard actually living and studying the art. I would never argue with Dan pertaining to Shorin as I am not qualified. However, he feels compelled to speak to me about Goju as an authority on the subject. He also speaks to me in second or
third party verbiage which irritates me. In my heart and mind I know how hard and frequently I train. I want to see if Dan lives it or just talks and writes about it. Anyway, we were once considering bringing him into this group. I'll give you my first hand opinion of his skill level and knowledge as soon as I have the opportunity to experience and evaluate it. My gut tells me his focus is political posturing and organizational involvement, not training. I sincerely hope I am wrong. There is book and verbal knowledge and then there is floor knowledge.
I want to know which Dan is. Hoperfully both! Cheers
Steve Wilson
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