Monday, April 3, 2023

Continuing discussions about Isshinryu

 

What should the initial order of Isshinryu kata be?



 

 

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It is my intention with my new students to teach Kata Sanchin 1st, then Seisan. Any Isshin-Ryu instructors in this group teach Sanchin 1st?

 

Top of Form 1

Andy Sloane

But that's counter to what Master Shimabuku taught.

 

Jeff Born

 But not counter to what Miyagi taught I'm Goju not isshin ryu but Goju founder Chojen Miyagi often taught sanchin first and students would often work only sanchin for years before learning another kata... wasn't till after the war did Miyagi decide to teach other Katas more often to keep his style alive... just a thought...

 

Andy Sloane

 And Tatsuo Sensei felt that new students are too tight and inflexible as it is so he didn't think it was a good idea to teach them to tighten up and compound the problem. That's why he taught it much later in our curriculum.

 

Victor Donald Smith

 Shimabuku Tatsuo was following the tradition of Kyan in teaching Seisan first. That is all, then teaching Sanchin later was just what he did. If you realize your Isshinryu is for decades of work, it really dosn't matter then which was taught first, just that hou coutinue to practice. There are many Sanchin traditions, the Motobu Ryu teaches an open handed version and a closed fist version. When Miyagi was a student his teacher K. Hiagonna taught Sanchin both ways,, and I understand he preferred the open hand version. So Miyagi thought to make a change, then he created a short Sanchin version (which is the one the Isshinryu version is based on, not the original one), And Uechi had a strong, and different Sanchin tradition too. Just practice for decades, and it all becomes clear.


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Recently ,during a discussion with Andy Sloan, an Isshin ryu stylist, regarding the Shimabukuro brothers influences and their varying interpretations of Ryukyu karate techniques. Of couse the subject of Isshin ryu's inverted fist came up. I shared with him this picture of my hand and the way myself and others were taught to make a fist by Shimabukuro Eizo.

 

His style interpretation Sukeniahyashi ,as it is usually referred to in Okinawa ( but called Shobayashi elsewhere by many, but not all) has taught this for decades by Eizo Sensei's first generation students. I am interested hearing who teaches this old school fist and from where they learned it. I know for sure that several of Eizo Sensei's students , such as Bill Hayes sensei, Richard Bonsteel sensei, Bob Weinberg sensei, still use this but I am sure there must be others both in my style as well as others.Please comment your thoughts no matter what your style or position.

 


 

Joe Weaver

Right or wrong, this is the Isshin-Ryu fist I was taught over 20 years ago. Roll all the air out of the 4 straight fingers, then tuck thumb in the "pocket" on top. Tilt fist forward/downward just before impact, to strike with first 2 knuckles.

I believe this was filmed in the Pittsburgh or Ohio area, in the early 1966. Master Shimabuku is seen doing several sections Isshin-Ryu kata. None of the kata are complete.


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Tatsuo Shimabuku Isshin-Ryu Karate Rare 1960's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oVDB9zxhqk&t=121s



 

I believe this was filmed in the Pittsburgh or Ohio area. Master Shimabuku is seen doing several sections of different Isshin-Ryu kata. None of the kata are ...

 

Top of Form 1

Gene Powell

 in Pittsburgh he had three sai's and on band new gym floor he threw one sai into new wood floor as part of kata, most never knew of this but it was on his first visit to Harry G. Smiths Pittsburgh Dojo the event was held in local high school gym

 

Andy Sloane

The Master's visit to Pittsburgh (and briefly to Canada) was September through November 1964. The Master's visit to Tacoma, Knoxville, Cleveland, Jersey City, and New York was October through December 1966, Dan Jason Price.

 

Dan Jason Price

Sensei Sloane, I was there in Pittsburgh (1964) watching as a 8 year old (2-3 x a week); and their dojo was near my uncle's home. I was hooked ever since.




 

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