Interview of Shinyu GushiUechi Ryu, 9th Dan
Dragon Times Issue #14
Not many people find an
9th Dan karate instructor at the front door on a Sunday morning, especially not
one carrying a large box of doughnuts. But then working at Dragon Times never
was boring, and nor was this particular day as it started with a serious period
while we checked his latest video, progressed to light hearted discussions over
lunch, and turned into mirth and hilarity as the day drew to a close.
Gushi sensei, every inch
the stern karate master on the outside, has a well-developed sense of humor we
discovered. Unfortunately, as is so often the case, I ended up being its target
and as a result, the source of a great deal of amusement for my co-workers.
At one stage while he was
explaining a technique he made his hand into “hiraken” then grabbing my head
without warning with his other claw-like appendage, rapped his knuckles on the
side of my temple saying as he did so in a rather matter-of-fact way, “because
this area (of my head) is very weak, you don’t have to hit too hard!” I did
survive the day although as my eye glasses now list heavily to port like a ship
getting ready to capsize, I must assume that they were bent during the
demonstration or, as seems likely from the pain I felt when I woke up next
morning, he displaced my left ear by half an inch.
Dragon
Times: Many readers have
asked us about your muscle-development. They want to know if you do weight
training or if not, what sort of training you do to keep yourself in such good
condition.
Shinyu
Gushi: I don’t do any
weight training. I used to do a little when I was young but Uehara sensei told
me that it I should concentrate on the quality of my muscles and not just their
size so I cut it down to a minimum.
It’s good to be strong
but in karate it’s speed and “snap” that you need. What muscles I have comes
from Sanchin training and using nigiri game. Muscles developed this way serve
to protect the body, weight training just produces a pleasing appearance.
When you are fighting
(drops into Sanchin stance) you pull your shoulders down like this and tense
your muscles, including those around your throat to make a shield. With your
body round and compact and your muscles tense you are relatively safe and
protected.
We pull everything into
the center, lower our bodies like this and make them round and smooth.
Techniques are performed in front of the body, we don’t block above the level
of the head for example because that would weaken our defenses.
DT: How would you say that karate has
changed since you started training?
SG: In some ways it has changed for the
better, in others for the worse. Times change and with them the way that we
lead our lives. When I started karate we would make our uniforms out of U.S.
Army flour sacks because everything was in such short supply in postwar
Okinawa. Nowadays most youngsters have everything they need or want but are no
happier than we were.
What I do regret are the
misunderstandings that have occurred about technique. When demand for tuition
became very strong during the sixties and seventies, students were given
permission to teach before they were ready.
Not knowing the bunkai,
that is, the purpose the movements they were teaching, they ended up just
teaching the movements. This is like giving someone a map without indicating in
which direction north lies—you sort of know where you going, but then again you
don’t.
The result of this were
students who slavishly performed the basic form of the technique without
knowing its purpose. For example, koi no shippo (goldfish tail block) is
performed slowly in the kata (demonstrates) but in fact it is either a very
sharp upward block, or a powerful downward strike to the opponent’s hand.
The student might think
that it should be performed during kumite as it is done during the kata, but
this is completely wrong. The point I am trying to make is that is if you have
never seen a nail you will not know how to use a hammer.
In authentic Uechi Ryu
there is order and method, and this must be passed on to students perfectly,
not just the physical appearance of techniques as has been the case so often in
the past.
If you are attacked
strongly you block softly—absorbing and deflecting. This is the Crane method.
When you attack you do so
fiercely, gripping your opponent so he cannot escape and striking him really
hard—this is the way of the Tiger.
Other techniques are
inspired by the imaginary movements of a dragon, that is why our method is
referred to as Ryokokaku—Dragon, Tiger, Crane school.
DT: Do you teach differently now than
you did in Okinawa?
SG: In some ways yes. When I came to
the United States, students asked me many questions about technique which is
not the way we do things at home.
I was accustomed to
waiting patiently until one of my seniors in the dojo would decide that it was
time for me to learn something new.
The American way was a
little unsettling at first, but it caused me to rationalize things that I had always
done instinctively.
Then, and only then could
I explain them logically, which is what the Western mind has been trained to
expect. This period of self-examination made me aware of the real secrets of
karate so you could say that it was not until I became 8th Dan that I really
knew what I was doing!
But don’t think that
there are short cuts because there aren’t. Learning karate properly is hard
work, you will often feel pain and exhaustion, frustration, and from time to
time you will suffer injury.
Karate still involves
strengthening and conditioning the body, learning the techniques so you can do
them without thinking, and building a strong spirit. When you have perfected
each and can bring them together perfectly, you are really doing karate and your
ability will become much greater than the sum of the three constituent parts.
DT: Is this why you decided to produce
your video series?
SG: Well, my students said that I
should, and now I agree with them. Before you train with a senior teacher you should
watch and listen to the videos and learn as much as you can, then your time in
the dojo will be used to the greatest benefit. If you can really absorb what is
shown on the videos and perform it to a reasonable standard, it will take you
to the level of third or fourth dan.
Watch and listen, think
about what you have seen, and train as hard as you can. The videos give a
visual example of technique which is very useful.
For example, I see so
many people these days just standing up straight when they perform Sanchin and
pushing their arms out in front of them. That’s not the way.
You have to lower your
body into Sanchin stance (demonstrates) like this, so that there is only a
small gap between your knees and your groin is protected.
You thrust strongly with
your arms, don’t just push them forward. This is serious business and you must
learn properly the first time otherwise the techniques won’t work.
DT: Do you have any strong views about
sparring?
SG: Not sparring as such but the use of
protectors or pads can be a problem. In Okinawa we don’t use them as body
conditioning is part of Uechi system that teaches us to withstand pain and
avoid injury.
When extensive protection
is used students lose all fear, much of their control, and a good deal of their
mobility. Sparring become a wild brawl with punches being swung
indiscriminately and the fighter with the longest arms and legs usually comes
out on top.
I realize that there is a
liability problem in the U.S. and insurance companies probably insist on protection
being worn before they will give coverage, but we must remember that
competition sparring is not real fighting.
DT: We are often asked by readers if
you are going to open a dojo so they can train with you. Do you have any plans?
SG: No! Running a dojo is a big
responsibility and very time consuming. I would end up teaching beginners to
cover the overhead which would prevent me from teaching senior students and
younger instructors which I feel is my real mission.
I travel to do seminars
however, and I will be teaching at seminars organized by Tsunami Productions
later this year.
DT: I understand that on the last of
the four part series you will be demonstrating kobudo. Can you tell us
something of the background of your training?
SG: Well, I started about 45 years ago
with Akamine Shoichi sensei, and also trained with one of my karate teachers,
Seiko Itokazu sensei. The kata are mainly from the Matayoshi school but as you
know, kata varies a little from dojo to dojo.
I have studied the bo,
eku, sai and nunchaku. There is no official kobudo style for Uechi Ryu, we
choose what we like and train with the teacher we prefer.
DT: Thank you sensei for giving us this
interview. I have seen your video series and was very impressed—it is
excellent. I hope that it will make more people aware of the genuinely
traditional training that you offer.
posted April 13, 2002 09:53
AM 
Removing his jacket,
shirt and tie, he tied up his long grey hair more tightly with the hair pin
worn by all men in Okinawa at one time, and stood motionless for a moment or
two. "Sanchin," he growled, then suddenly, hunching forward slightly
and thrusting his arms violently down at his sides, he began a transformation
that would rival in dramatic effect the metamorphosis of Dr. Jekyll into Mr.
Hyde.
His body became instantly
hard with a tension that defies description; sinews grew from nowhere and
became steel cords; muscles swelled from the torso and solidified under my
gaze; the eyes were transformed into ferocious slits from which shone
malevolence, and from within nature's most dangerous creation--the creature
that walks upright--came the primordial sound of the beast mustering its
physical and mental power in preparation for a fight to the death.
I felt the hair on the
back of my neck rising, as my primordial instincts reacted to the sight before
me.
I felt as one does when
the beloved family pet, who will willingly endure mashed potatoes in both ears
providing the kids will let him eat it afterwards, becomes a wolf in defence of
his pack; a snarling mass of tensed muscle and bared fangs to whom no reason
will appeal.
**
“Of course! The reason
that we practised Sanchin for at least six months was to make our bodies strong
and capable of taking punishment.
If your Sanchin is good,
you can protect your whole body with the exception of the face. If your
opponent cannot hurt you enough to stop you fighting he will loose.
See (tensing the muscles
around the neck so they looked like a thick strand of rope wound around beneath
his chin) even if I am hit here (indicating his vulnerable throat by hitting it
with his fist) I can protect myself with Sanchin.”
Sanchin is important
because it allows you to build a shield of muscle that you can use at will, and
that will both protect your body and give you a lot of power to attack with.
Dragon
Times: I understand that
you studied with Seiyu Shinjo as well.
Shinyu
Gushi: That's right I
did. I studied kata with him a lot. Then he moved to Kadena which was too far
for me to travel so I started training with Seiko Itokazu Sensei who was the
head of the Pangai Noon, (the original name of the style that Kanbun Uechi
brought back from China).
I was an instructor by
this time, and was aware therefore that karate was already changing.
1958 our first dan grade
examinations in Okinawa were held. We were told to attend by our respective
instructors and were examined by a large number of seniors for basics and kata
performance.
Then we were told to
fight each other.
Dragon
Times: What form did the
examination take?
Shinyu
Gushi: We did Sanchin
while seniors instructor tested us (shime) by hitting and punching us as we
performed the Kata. Then we did Sanseru in front of the seniors, then they told
us to fight.
Dragon
Times: What do you mean
by "fight?"
Shinyu
Gushi: It was nothing
like now. We were always taught in the dojo just to attack the enemy and
beat him.
We didn't assume a stance
and then circle warily. We went straight at each other, and using Sanchin,
tried to avoid injury while beating up the opponent.
Only direct strikes to
the face were forbidden, everything else was allowed, so we attacked with
everything we had and a lot of students were injured.
The problem was that the
instructors who were supposed to be conducting the grading became so enthralled
with the fighting that they would forget to stop us. Only when one of the pair
of combatants started to take a real beating would they remember to intervene,
and by that time ten minutes of no holds barred fighting had taken their toll.
Dragon
Times: I'm not clear
about the rules for the sparring.
Shinyu
Gushi: We were allowed
to hit full power to any target with any technique except the face. We could
attack the opponent's face, but not make contact.
Dragon
Times: What techniques
were used most often?
Shinyu
Gushi: Well we used
everything.
Sokuto kicks were used,
hand techniques like the dragon strike to the throat, it was a fight rather
than sparring.
Dragon
Times: How did you do at
the grading?
Shinyu
Gushi: All right! I
survived the battles and was graded second dan but when I look back I have to
view this as the beginning of the change in Karate.
Until this point we
practised in the dojo individually under the supervision of a senior--there
were no organized classes as such, or grades.
We practised techniques
that the first grading in 1958 showed all too clearly were far too dangerous to
use in competition. I feel that from this point on "modern" karate
started to develop along sporting lines while the old, "real" karate
stayed in the background, and backyards of Okinawan teachers where it had
always been.
When you are marching up
and down a dojo it's easy to be anonymous--there's a certain feeling of
belonging to a group that is reassuring.
But when you fight, you
fight alone, so we train alone, student with instructor. In this way you can't
hide anything as you can with group training. I see the student's flaws and I
correct them so that the student can improve.
I offer individual training
of an intense nature so people who really want to improve their karate skills
can. That's not to say that what other people are doing is no good--just that
what we do is different.
Dragon
Times: When you were
learning karate as a young student, did the seniors teach you kyusho (nerve
points)?
Shinyu Gushi: Yes. We
learned from our seniors and teachers but not to use in the dojo of course,
it's too dangerous. Also we were not allowed to use them from the time of the
first dan grading I told you about because they are so dangerous.
Dragon
Times: When you tense
your body, does it protect you from attacks to your nerve points?
Shinyu
Gushi: Of course! That's
why we practice Sanchin to learn how to do this--to protect ourselves in a
fight.
Dragon
Times: So if you had to
protect yourself the first thing you would do would be to tense your body.
Shinyu
Gushi: Yes!
Shinyu
Gushi: Time changes
things you know, so does transmission from one instructor to another. Everyone
has their own interpretation of things that varies by a tiny amount from
everyone else, and as these are passed on things change.
We are all human and this
is natural. I try very hard to pass on only what I learned. I make a conscious
effort to do only this.
Dragon Times: What are
your hopes for the future?
Shinyu
Gushi: There are many
karate men these days and dojos everywhere, and that's fine. I hope to do many
demonstrations of karate for everyone to see. So that they can say, this is how
karate was a long time ago in Okinawa. This is Okinawan karate!
posted April 13, 2002 10:46 PM
.jpg)
1958 our first Dan grade
examinations in Okinawa were held. We were told to attend by our respective
instructors and were examined by a large number of seniors for basics and kata
performance.
Then we were told to fight each other.
Dragon
Times: What form did the
examination take?
Shinyu
Gushi: We did Sanchin
while senior’s instructor tested us (shime) by hitting and punching us as we
performed the Kata. Then we did Sanseiryu in front of the seniors, then they
told us to fight.
Dragon
Times: What do you mean
by "fight?"
Shinyu
Gushi: It was nothing
like now. We were always taught in the dojo just to attack the enemy and
beat him.
We didn't assume a stance
and then circle warily. We went straight at each other, and using Sanchin,
tried to avoid injury while beating up the opponent.
Only direct strikes to
the face were forbidden, everything else was allowed, so we attacked with
everything we had and a lot of students were injured.
The problem was that the
instructors who were supposed to be conducting the grading became so enthralled
with the fighting that they would forget to stop us.
Only when one of the pair
of combatants started to take a real beating would they remember to intervene,
and by that time ten minutes of no holds barred fighting had taken their toll.
Dragon
Times: I'm not clear
about the rules for the sparring.
Shinyu
Gushi: We were allowed
to hit full power to any target with any technique except the face. We could
attack the opponent's face, but not make contact.
Dragon
Times: What techniques
were used most often?
Shinyu
Gushi: Well we used
everything.
Sokuto kicks were used, hand techniques like the dragon strike to the throat,
and it was a fight rather than sparring.
Shinyu
Gushi: All right! I
survived the battles and was graded second Dan but when I look back I have to
view this as the beginning of the change in Karate.
Until this point we
practiced in the dojo individually under the supervision of a senior--there
were no organized classes as such, or grades.
We practiced techniques
that the first grading in 1958 showed all too clearly were far too dangerous to
use in competition.
I feel that from this
point on "modern" karate started to develop along sporting lines
while the old, "real" karate stayed in the background, and backyards
of Okinawan teachers where it had always been.
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