Patrick McCarthy and George Donahue have a dialogue on the old CD - Part 4

Back in 1997 I was new to the internet and the CyberDojo. Almost immediately I found a lengthy dialogue between  Patrick McCarthy and George Donahue.

Patrick was a well known competitor, practitioner and author on his arts. He knew George as his book editor at Tuttle, but not as a martial artist.

George had been raised in Japan, was on an old Samuri tv series as a youth playing the younger version of the samurai for flashbacks when he learned varrious lessons. He later trained in karate on Okinawa. Established a Kashiba Juku group in the states and eventually became the martial arts editor  for Tuttle Publications.

Knowing that Patrick was in a somewhat heated discussion on the CD when George weighed in. Beginning what would be a lengthy discussions of an extremely erudite level of discourse. I do not know of another discussion of similar character. A discussion that does not exist  today.

This will be challenging but well worth the effort.

Because of it's length I am breaking it into several parts.
===============================================================
 

 

Date: 25 Jul 97 16:53:21
From: gdonahue@randomhouse.com
To: karate@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Dai Nippon
Message-ID: <199707252051.AA24275@interlock.randomhouse.com>

Jon Tupitza wrote:

> In response to Mr. Donahue's post:
>
<<snip>> The very name Dai Nippon Butokukai screams
> out me -- and others of my background -- cultural
> aggression and repression.  "Dai Nippon" was the name
> used to denote the greater Japanese empire, including
> possessions in Korea and Manchuria and, a bit later, the
> East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (that is, subjugated
> Asian neighbors).  This term was used by many patriotic
> organizations, all up to little good for the world in general.
> To romanticize an era and to aggrandize an organization
> that played a part, however small, in a sordid historical
> undertaking, is not productive for the further development
> of martial arts or world peace. <<end snip>>
>
>
>Please exercise patience with any ignorance I may
> express, but...
>
> If I am not mistaken, the name "Dai Nippon BuToku-Kai"
> was first coined during the 800's A.D. when the present
> Emperor founded an organization meant simply to serve
> as a centralized forum for Bushi to refine their skills for the
> good of all Yamato. (Patrick; feel free to jump in here at
> any time).
>
> Later, during the Tokugawa Shogunate (Edo Period),
> the name Dai Nippon BuToku Kai resurfaced in the
> form of an organization dedicated to the preservation
> of Nippon Bujutsu (primarily Kenjutsu). The peace of the
> Tokugawa era threatened the social dominence of the
> Samurai class and the "combat savy" of their various
> jutsu. The bushi did not like this, as they feared their
> skills would be needed again.
>
> Of course the only commonality between these
> organizations is the name Dai Nippon BuToku Kai, as
> there is no contiguous hierarchy or lineage between the
> DNBK  of the 800's, 1700's to 1945, or 1953 to Present.
>
> Bearing the above in mind, would it not then be incorrect
> to project a "WW II era emperialist" stigma upon an
> organization named/founded much earlier.
>
> Of course "Dai Nippon" does mean Greater Japan (this
> is immutible), but I believe this title refers to the kingdom
> of Yamato and its earlier holdings (Okinawa), and is
> meant to express the idea that the organization was to
> be made up of, by, and for all (or at least the majority)
> of the Japanese Budoka.

The term "Dai Nippon" does indeed antedate the modern era and was in use far before the subjugation of Okinawa.  The term wasn't tainted until the current century.  Even though we can explain the origin of the term in a manner satisfactory to the disinterested intellect, the explanation doesn't appease the emotions.

I can liken it to the swastika.  Before the Nazi party used this emblem, it had a long history of benign use.  It was evident in two traditions that I know of -- Christianity and, particularly, Buddhism.  On modern Japanese maps, for example, Buddhist temples are indicated by a swastika.  The swastika is often read as the kanji "ji," meaning temple.

We share our dojo with a group of Shorinji Kempo stylists.  Shorinji Kempo is a Buddhist sect (rather Zen-ish in some ways) in addition to a martial arts system, and it uses the swastika as the emblem for the martial arts style.  It's found on their patches, stationery, etc.  In our dojo, there are two Buddhist swastikas on display at all times.

On several occasions, prospective students have felt so uneasy in a dojo displaying swastikas that they have decided solely on that basis that our school is not for them.  This despite my pointing out to them that the swastikas in our dojo point the other way from the German version (mirror image).  Two of my students who are Jewish have also expressed unease at the display.  Unfortunately for us, the swastikas are important to the Shorinji Kempo group, and they're not coming down.  If I remember to do so, I cover them up temporarily when our group is using the deck for special occasions, so that we don't cause any discomfort for our guests.  Because it's troublesome, we don't normally cover them, though, and my Jewish students have decided that the training is worth the discomfort.  They'd be much happier if the emblems would come down permanently.

In the same manner, many people, especially those from the countries victimized by the Imperial Japanese forces, have this gut reaction to the use of the term "Dai Nippon."  Some Okinawans detest the term, too, for similar reasons, as do modern Japanese pacifists and internationalists.

When I was younger and overly proud of my illustrious bujin ancestors, the idea of "Dai Nippon" was sort of a badge of pride and honor to me.  In those days I also hoped, each evening as I went to work in the nightclub where I tended bar and did a little bouncing, to get the chance to try out the latest neat technique I'd picked up in the dojo.  One of the two advantages of growing older (first being that it beats the alternative) is that you get the chance to grow up, at least a little, and to learn to try to avoid that which causes unnecessary harm to others and to yourself.  These days, I hope that my martial arts training will never again be needed and that if it is needed that it will help me in dangerous situations to use no more than the absolute minimum force necessary to escape unharmed.  I also try to pick my words carefully and say nothing that causes harm, whether intentional or not.  Even though I don't always succeed, life is richer and sweeter for me in the trying.

But hey, that doesn't mean I've slowed down my training any.  In fact, I've got to speed it up, because I figure I've only got another fifty years or so to get in the fifty million strokes I need for personal fulfillment.

Gambatte!


George Donahue
----------
gdonahue@randomhouse.com / gdonahue.kishaba.juku.usa@juno.com
Kishaba Juku of New York City at the Ken Zen Institute of Japanese Martial Arts
and Culture
Okinawa Karate-Do Shorin Ryu Kishaba Juku / Matsubayashi Ryu / Ryukyu Kobujutsu
Nana korobi, ya oki.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Digest 1372  Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:10:52 CDT



Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:06:45 +1000
From: "Patrick McCarthy" <Bujin@bigpond.com>
To: <karate@raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Titles, "Dai Nippon" & Karatedo
Message-ID: <08125718700400@onaustralia.com.au>

Greetings from the "Land of Oz."

Dear Mr. Donohue (& Mr. Tupitza) not wanting to push the issue, may I just take this opportunity to briefly interrupt the subsequent argument (which has unfolded from the "Titles" issue) to inquire about part two of your response.

Incidentally, just yesterday I received a communique from Dr. Hamada Hanshi, Director of the International Division of the Dai Nippon Butokukai.The DNBK are tentatively hosting their Kokusai Butokusai (International Martial Arts Festival) at Old Dominion University in Virginia next year. The Japanese delegation (representing the Kyoto honbu) will include all the official Prefectural representatives. Representing Okinawa will be (long standing member) Matayoshi Shimpo, regarded by many as the sole inheritor of the (Go Kenki) White Crane (Kingairyu) system and the weapon tradition his father (Shinko) popularized during the pre-war years.

Regards

Patrick McCarthy

PS  Jon, I'll be happy to "jump-in" later if you'll only promise to stand on the sidelines with a life-jacket.
 
------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:24:54 +0000
From: JANOSND@mail.bay.k12.fl.us
To: karate@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: KARATE digest 1371
Message-ID: <5B627170405@mail.bay.k12.fl.us>

        Paris, can you elaborate on 'using the compression created in  your koshi'?  
        Thanks!
Dave Fulton

I'd be glad to!

The compression comes from squeezing the koshi together from many  different angles in order to gather the energy together so that it can then be issued in whatever way is appropriate for the circumstances at hand. This is used in conjunction with, and as a
result of rotating and tucking the koshi and hips. When this kind of compression is understood then we can issue power without having to make big, circular hip rotations that give away our intention and technique to our opponent. The compression is like squeezing a rubber ball our pressing down on a spring in order to use the natural elasticity of the muscle, bones, tendons and internal organs to create live, fluid power that can than be issued in any direction, from any angle, by any limb or body part. This kind of practice also leads to the ability to issue power in multiple directions at the same time. All of these skills are useful in real self defense usage and form the basis of our training in Kishaba Juku Shorin Ryu.Much of this relies on developing the proper "feeling" and is  difficult at times to see when it is done right.


Paris Janos

-------------------------------------------