I’m sure it was in 1979 at a Cherry Blossom Karate Tournament in North Eastern Pennsylvania when I went into the locker room to change at the end of the tournament. A senior instructor, Joe Brague, was talking to a number of the competitors and turned to me and said, “Victor, come over here I want to demonstrate something to them…” The next thing I knew was I was on the floor regaining consciousness.
Brague Sensei demonstrated a carotid choke on me and I went down. That’s what happens. The pressure on the carotid sinus causes the heart to stop beating and the loss of blood flow to the brain causes unconsciousness in maybe 5 or 6 seconds.
That’s all you slowly count to 6 and you’re unconscious before you get there.
That was enough to get me looking into how chokes were performed.
In one karate magazines they demonstrated a technique that would set up that choke. I tried it out on a senior student and saw how it was working, so I started working my way through logical means of setting that choke. Eventually I worked out about 5 or 6 choking techniques.
This was one of two different choking sequences, the other being the trachea choke, which takes longer to set (say 20 seconds) and can be far messier to deliver.
A few years later at a summer camp I was asked to give a clinic, so I told them I was going to show how to choke, but when I started showing the techniques the camp director rushed over and asked me to stop, that it was too advanced for the students.
Are such studies too advanced? I teach youth and certainly do not teach them how to choke, but understanding the reason you must instantly break a choke is not beyond youth needs either.
Choking has always been a part of Judo. I remember an Olympic contest where the American judoka was contesting with a Russian judoka. They locked up and shortly it was over, the Russian went for a collar grab-choke and simply choked out his opponent.
But chokes are a layered answer. A while ago Police Science thought that teaching Police chokes would be a humane way to control assailants. You wouldn’t have to strike them, you’d just render them unconscious. Potentially true, but forgetting an important item, a Police officer trying to restrain a subject has likely been bodily threatened by them, and has their adrenalin rushing, in turn in less than in perfect self control. A carotid choke held say 20 or more seconds can be life threatening. A Georgia State Trouper explained at a clinic how frequently good ideas in Police Science end up wrong when the full picture comes into play in practice.
Tactically a choke is one way to finish an response to an attack. Shift, parry, strike, etc. till control is required and a carotid choke is certainly a logical way to finish that control, assuming one is in enough control to only do what they wish.
Chokes to the neck (carotid or trachea) have serious side effects. The neck can be dislocated or broken under some circumstances; the axis might be fractured against the atlas in such circumstances with paralysis a result. (under no circumstances take my medical technical opinions as accurate, they are only intended to generally refer to a complex set of dynamics that one should responsibility reach with a Doctor for accuracy).
Yes under the right circumstances they may be performed to show human frailty, but under no circumstances does ever going beyond a second or two to show the potential, are the potential risks worth going further.
While frequently demonstrated, it is always irresponsible to ‘safely’ put someone out.
This knowledge should not be hidden. The most important value is showing everyone never let anyone touch their neck. In fact if someone must know when it is most important that they react without thinking further, anyone placing their hands on their neck, anyone attempting to place their hands on their neck, or anyone seeing a strike coming towards their neck, gives immediate license to respond and make all of the above not happen.
Perhaps it best stated the neck is the gateway for strongest control of our person.
And of course the study of how chokes can be set has a more important value, how does one counter those attacks.
The paradox of our arts asserts itself. To become most technically efficient at neutralizing an attack, we first have to be able to deliver that attack with force, focus and speed.
So when having turkey and someone asks who wants the neck, it might give you something to think about.
Duane Wolfe The more correctly named lateral vascular neck restraint doesn't stop the heart. Attached is one of the few scientific studies on the actual results on the body. "• The results “demonstrate that the [only] important mechanism causing unconsciousness during VNR is decreased cerebral blood flow due to bilateral carotid artery compression,” the study team reports. Mitchell comments, “This did not come as a surprise. When the supply of blood-borne oxygen to the brain is cut off by at least 50%, the brain cannot sustain consciousness.” https://aztroopers.org/.../force-science-study-on...
Lee Richards Duane Wolfe is correct. This is not a choke and we in the industry should not call it that as it leads to lawsuit issues and jury issues in court. The techniques have been around for years but the Japanese characters we commonly use for these techniques do not translate to choke. U.S. students have commonly misinterpreted it that way and leads to major problems in the news media and courtrooms. To make up for that translation error, they began calling it a blood choke which is also incorrect.
Choke (Chōk) - verb
(of a person or animal) have severe difficulty in breathing because of a constricted or obstructed throat or a lack of air.
Carotid attacks allow the person to breath throughout the entire process.
Also, numerous members of various Law Enforcement D.T. groups I have been a part of have for years tried to find any documented case of a strike or squeeze to the carotid causing a blood clot and/or stroke. We have never been able to find a single documented case. Our attorney and on staff doctors at NLETC have tried for years as have others in our group. I strike it as a possibility, but totally a rumor until someone points to an actual case of hundreds of years of doing these.
http://tuite-kyusho.blogspot.com/.../the-choke...
The Choke Misidentification ConundrumThe Choke Misidentification Conundrum
Victor
I am sure what I am describing is not technically a choke. My isshinryu instructors never taught me this. And when I was rendered unconscious back in 1979, when I returned to consciousness, that is what it was called. I only studied in America, never overseas anyplace, never saw the need to develop a more accurate term for this. And everyone I trained with in any art only did so in English.
This was before the internet access of today, but from various magazines that demonstrated various ways to use this technique (and most often it was shown but not described) I made my own independent study of a variety of ways this could be applied.
I did not teach this to my students (but it was covered in the training of those who made it to Senior Instructor training). It’s lesson were taught to all my students for defensive purposes. (If anyone puts their hands on your neck, as you can be unconscious before you can count 1,2,3,4,5,6.., that is when you should go ballistic on your opponent to stop that from happening.)
Make no mistake about it, that area.. the side of the necks, the location of the carotid sinus, is where what we are talking about occurs.
While I was originally told it was a ‘blood choke’ as the mechanism and many books parroted the same as occurring.
Decades later my Doctor and dan student, a surgeon, told me that what was occurring was pressure being applied to the carotid sinus, and what occurs then is the carotid sinus, as all sinus cavities around the body, triggers the heart to stop beating and reduce the spike in blood pressure from the ‘choke’ and when it is released the drop of blood pressure starts the heart from beating again.
The pressure against the carotid sinus is not the mechanism. He told me often in neck surgery the carotid artery is totally clamped off for the surgery to take place. Yet the patient is kept talking during the surgery, because secondary blood vessels keep enough blood to the brain allowing consciousness to continue.
Finding access to the internet, now over 30 years ago, I have gotten confirmation of this from many doctors and medical researchers.
But I don’t apply those holds, whatever they are, nor do I strike into the carotid sinus (even though I have many ways to do so.)
I just have done my best to preserve what I have seen for the instructors I have developed.
If the discussion goes further into medical study, I must tell you that my doctor made it extremely clear that only an idiot would turn to me for medical opinions.
Posted by Victor Smith at 2:16
textbook, 3rd Edition 1992, by Keith L Moore. ISBN 068306133X. Publisher:
Williams & Wilkins. Page 799 on, ....
Carotid Sinus: This is a small dilation of the proximal part of the internal
carotid artery; it may involve the common carotid. A blood pressure regulating
area (editor's emphasis), the carotid sinus is innervated principally by the
glossopharyngeal nerve (CN IX) through a branch called the carotid sinus
nerve..... the carotid sinus reacts to changes in arterial blood pressure
(editor's emphasis) and effects appropriate modifications reflexly...... the
carotid sinus responds by slowing the heart, owing to the parasympathetic
outflow from the brain through the vagus nerve. Pressure on the carotid sinus
may cause syncope (fainting) (editor's emphasis), and if the person happens to
have a supersensitive carotid sinus, it may cause cessation of the heart beat
(temporary or permanent).
This is a most important area of applied aggressor control techniques, clarity would be appreciated.
Regards,
BOB DAVIES,
Wu-Shin Chi-Dao
Yudansha
Durban
South Africa
https://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/2014/10/anatomy-of-carotid-sinus-nerve-and.html
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