‎ Kobudo Kata...

 

 

Steven M. Franz‎  

Why do so many people run "made up" weapons kata when there is a plethora of Kobudo kata to learn that are not thrown together with no meaning, principle or purpose?

 

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Charles E. James Because ... THEY CAN! Not being sarcastic or flippant but this way is way easier and if it is just for kata competition where presentation and such are used to judge then, why not?

 

Steven M. Franz Well...if anyone is passing off their made up weapons forms and calling it Kobudo then they are, in fact, lying to their students. I don't mind people making up weapons forms for tournaments because that is only a sport thing, not a real thing as I see it (and yes I compete). But, when I see someone advertising they teach "Kobudo" and I go into their dojo and see nothing that is actual Kobudo then they are lying to their students...but that's just how I see it. Personally I would never lie to my students.

 

Jon Poor Steven M. Franz Agreed! I've seen far too many schools give their student a weapon and simply have them mimic the moves. No knowledge of basics. OMG, you would have your students do basics for empty hand, why not kobudo! I've also seen kata with techniques that5 would NOT work if actually using the weapon for defense, etc.

 

Christopher Matsumura Rozek Good question. I agree with you too, why? I agree with what Charles said to except that if people are throwing things together without purpose or meaning I don't see how you could fair well when being judged.

Let's just avoid talking about the flashy "tricking" that people call kobudo competition and talk about more traditional competition. Because if we are talking about tricking, nothing matters, cheerleaders twirl flags and it looks all the same to me. I digress, to make your own kata, a basic understanding of the weapon, how to use it and what you are doing need to be there. Without that, there is nothing to judge and there is no purpose.

 

Charles E. James As to judging, I doubt seriously anyone judging kata competition actually use the understanding of how to use it and so on but tend to lean heavily on perception of the presentation with emphasis on what some call heart, i.e., yelling loudly and demonstration dynamic tension and so on but what the hey (you can't judge such things because there is no set criteria on such things, its one of those can't put it in a wheel barrow things)

 

Christopher Matsumura Rozek In the circuits I am involved in, a basic understanding of the weapon is a prerequisite. If you are a judge, your score should not be based on how cool something looks. If you as a judge have no clue about Kobudo, you should not be a judge.

 

Lonnie Kelley There are "flashy" techniques in some traditional kobudo. Maybe not any behind the back around the neck and up in the air stuff but there are jumps, spins, kicks, and other techniques that could help in competition while maintaining the traditional forms

 

Christopher Matsumura Rozek If it is traditional, it doesn’t have to maintain anything.

 

David Petrie Big Fish in little pan syndrome...

 

Michael Demeter We mix weapons into other kata All the time for fun. Ran Kusanku timbe last week. You get a chance to see the kata and or the weapon from a whole different perspective. Seunchin Tiji kun bo, Kusanku sai. Good times!

 

Lonnie Kelley I have done seuinchin as a sai kata and our style teaches a lot of our empty hand kata as weapons

 

Steven M. Franz Nothing wrong with that and I do the same thing as well as run the 14 Kobudo Kata I was taught empty hand too. That isn't what I am addressing with my question. I am asking why people don't just go out and actually learn Kobudo from an authentic source instead of making stuff up and then trying to call it Kobudo...that is the point. Now, that being said, if you are putting weapons in your regular kata and passing it off as Kobudo then that, too, is not correct...just saying.

 

Joe Sarlo Because most people don't train kobudo, especially in open circuit tournaments that look like circus shows.

Its also getting harder to find really kobudo/kobujitsu dojo's
Kobudo training is more then just wildly swinging a weapon around. Which you see quite a bit of on youtube.

 

Steven M. Franz But they can and should...that is sort of my point. There are actually a lot of good, authentic Kobudo teachers out there still today and there are seminars all over the USA on Kobudo as well. I am not expert on Kobudo, nor would I ever consider myself...

 

Joe Sarlo There are a lot more fake instructors teaching crap that claim to be experts.  They have no idea how to use a weapon or swing it properly, let alone judge. They look at a few books and videos and think they understand the weapon when they don't even know...

 

Kārł K. Wāgnër Because flash and trash sells.

 

Albert Mady I have attended and will continue going to seminars outside of Isshinryu. I have enjoyed learning. Kata and skills from other weapons , I do so because I love to learn but more so I have learned more about my own system, it truly bothers me that many have put the Isshinryu kobudo on the back burner. To each their own.

 

John Kerker Proper Kobudo training will open up a new world in ones karate training.

 

Dimitris Giorkas I started training in Ryu Kyu Kobujutsu a couple of years ago. I always was curious about using weapons in shotokan katas...
Trying using sai and bo in most katas is giving me a new side of view...

But I agree that people who want to be serious in kobudo should take the time to learn original kobudo kata...

 

Dojo TokyoMushinkan Generally outside battlefield weapons (sword, spear, halberd, bow & arrow), a lot of the so-called Ryukyu Kobudo weapons probably aren't that old. Likely most Kobudo kata were made up after 1867 anyway. Many Bo kata and a couple Sai kata are probably technically and historically "authentic," but the Tonfa, Eku, Nunchaku, Kama, etc., probably not. Oh, don't tell my Ryukyu Kobudo teacher I said that, though LOL!!!

 

Dojo TokyoMushinkan Steven M. Franz i do not disagree

 

Victor Smith 

Most of you simply do not fade back far enough, you are too young, be thankful for that.

 Back in the beginning of the American Karate Experience (the only one I can reasonably speak about), perhaps only Isshinryu was complete with kata and kobudo components as part of the art. And for that matter who knew what was also uneven.

There were uneven distribution of any sources. 

Competition was a point that a lot of styles used to build upon. And those who competed often had no kubudo at all. For example George Dillman was an early kata and kobudo champion. He worked at acquiring as much knowledge as he could, from many sources. Of course that was before my time, I just read the stories about him.

There were almost no movies available, Those who wanted to compete often used other forms as a basis. For example I have seen empi done with many weapon, as a black belt weapons form, Then, there were those who simply made up their own, often on their own ideas. And as competition moved forward, other styles moved in. For example the Chinese stylists had advantages with unique weapons, lengthy acrobatic forms, etc. Then there were those who built forms to directly compete with what they had. 

The judges frequently had been around awhile, often with no on uneven weapons skills of their own. So looking good was a component of winning. At no time did anyone have to prove their skills, as proof of what they had.

Some areas instructors did try to gain other knowledgably instructors to help them. But there were those who were also sold a bill of goods about what was ‘traditional’.

It was of course all over the place.  And individuals followed many standards, some true to their style. Some….

The time arrived where VHS became available. Tons of tapes came out, with no ability to really evaluate what was shown. Those tapes certainly contributed to a messy picture.

Then onto DVDs, The internet, FB and all the rest.

Many groups no longer participate in Open tournaments. Those that do follow their own rules, ie Modern Kobudo competition.

For myself, I never hunted for anything, but working with many skilled friends, had a lot shared with me. For example at one time, I was practicing 20 bo kata from a variety of sources. I realized no one needs 20 bo kata rationally, and dropped way back. Isshinryu has always been my core.

Then again some do not care for others, Often I have experienced it myself. 

Then again I am not pushing anything, satisfied to have shared with my own students.