An older discussion on Chinto and Kusanku kata

 I believe this discussion about Isshinryu is still relevant.

Chinto

I was told Chinto was practiced by Kyan on a bridge, not that the techniques were specifically taught for brdige fighting. I was taught the focus is defending against opponents from front & back. It could be done on a bridge, but it could also be done in a hallway. If you look on Sensei's videos he says Kyan was sometimes called "Chinto-Kyan" because he liked to practice this on a bridge.

Joey

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Victor Note – Actually Kyan no Chinto may have been because of his choice to do it on a 45 degree angle. Dan Smith comments the change was done to show the angle he would use for arrests as a police officer.

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During 1963-64, Shimabuku stopped teaching Seiunchin, Naihanchi and Wansu kata. Do you or anyone else know why? I do but for the sake of learning I ask the group.

Rich

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Jet Taylor writes:

Tatsuo was further simplifying the system in order to allow it to be taught in such a short period of time given the short tours of duty the servicemen had.  

The reason Tatsuo gave was that many Americans were trying to learn too much.  They were trying to learn kobudo and were not doing the empty-handed kata correctly so he dropped these three kata. At the time there were now several Americans who were staying longer on Okinawa or who were returning and learning more. Bill Blond, John Bartusivics, Louis King, and Advincula so the kata continued to be taught.

Rich

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Kusanku

Advincula sensei ask Ciso about Kusanku kata because several people on the internet say it is not a night fighting kata. Ciso says that in Isshin-ryu it is a night fighting kata.

The first movement in Kusanku is the same as all other branches of Shorin-ryu and is a sign for world peace.

Joen Nakazato says the first four moves are only defensive postures. Nakazato explains that kusanku in Shorinji-ryu is their highest empty hand kata with emphasizes on pacification. By showing that there are "no preemptive attack in karate" only defensive moves.

While Tatsuo taught the first move to be the same as in Shorinji-ryu as peace in the world, the second move was chopping forward with the left hand bring the right open hand back protecting the solar plexus.

Tatsuo taught the third and fourth moves to shield the eyes from any overhead light. Moonlight, streetlight, train lights, car lights, sun or any light. So he made Kusanku for night fighting feeling to the sides. The movement where one gets low to the ground was to see someone standing.

Because the other branches of Shorin-ryu do not teach kusanku kata as a night fighting kata doesn't mean Tatsuo didn't. He wasn't afraid to change. I was told by a Kasaba ryu (shorin ryu) sensei that Shorin ryu had a night fighting Kusanku, some still teach it.

Ciso says his father was an innovator. He is known for many innovations. He created Kusanku for night time , this just another one of Tatsuo innovations.

So, our Kusanku or Tatsuo's Kusanku is a night fighting kata. Also some branches of Shorin-ryu use part of "Passai" as a night fighting kata. The part that looks like we are feeling to the left and right.

Now gentlemen you can speculate all u want 2 and stay up at night doing so. But I believe he used it as such and whether some other branch of Shorin ryu does or doesn't mean nothing to me.

Rich (nitpick this Mr. Boyd) But be aware you are now nitpicking your sensei, because he is my number one source of information. :-)

The following information was given to me by Advincula sensei some time ago. It's accurate to the best of his knowledge and that's usually on the money.

Tatsuo's was about 12 years of age when he trained under his uncle Ganiku. Note Eizo san said his name was Shinko but wasn't sure. Tatsuo lived in Chan at the time, his uncle in Agena.

Around 1932 Tatsuo trained under Kyan in Kadena.

Then Miyagi in 1936. 

Followed by Motobu in 1939-40.

Then kobudo under Taira Shinken in 1958-59.

Many have argued over which teacher came first, second, etc. It only matters if your into history and preserving it. I believe it's good to know. Someday you'll wish you had it when questions arise.

But let's not get into a pissing match over it because I won't respond anyway. I put this put for the reader to look at and decide if it's for him/her or not.

Advincula had told given lots of good information over the years. Better than anyone else around. No one can argue this, it's a fact.

I for one, have to keep notes and don't have it committed to memory. I do remember if something written or said doesn't seem right, then most times than not refer to my notes.

I will post additional info from time to time.

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I will post more as I find my notes. This was an old post on Isshin kai I saved dated Oct. 28, 2001

 

Seisan kata is close to Nakazato Joens Sensei kata and Nakazato was a student of Kyan Chotoku sensei.

Naihanchi kata is very close also with the exception of going left instead of right and the use of a spear hand instead of a punch.

Wansu kata is different then the other branches of Shorin-ryu. So we may never know who was the closer to the Kyan Wansu.

Chinto kata is close to the Chinto Nakazato Joen teaches.

Kusanku we know Tatsuo changed to be used as a night fighting kata.

Sunsu is a kata with parts of Gojushiho and Passai along with things that Tatsuo taught that would help the five senses.

In addition to my last post it goes without saying that Sunusu is ours alone. Sanchin we know was taught last. I believe our Sanchin kata is from Miyagi as well as Seunchin kata. Seisan, Naihanchi, Wansu, Chinto, and Kusanku all from Kyan. I'm not sure if Tatsuo learned Naihanchi from Motobu too. Best known reference for this info is AJA. Many others were told by him and remember.

 

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Ciso stated that Tatsuo learned Naihanchi from Kyan first and since both are similar, he was using Kyan version. As to starting to the left, Tatsuo may have just forgot or might have did it to put his own signature and it was intentional.

I believe Tatsuo also learned Motobu's version but need further clarification on this. It would make sense but it's only speculation when the facts are absent.

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Throughout all the chat on shielding the eye's from glare, etc.. No one mentioned a point of reference as in a gun sight. Harald Mithcum and I believe Advincula sensei have shown placing the hand just above the eyes narrows your sight concentration, making it easier to see anything coming across its path. Similar to the sights on a gun. Although a gun sight is much more target specific, this method works well.

That aside there has also been some chat from Lenny asking exactly where in this kata are the night fighting moves. Common sense prevails here and the question I feel is more to set a trap then to bring out good dialog. I think he will bring out a point later on down the line.

We can argue, debate or talk about this kata from now until hell freezes over. The bottom line is this is what Tatsuo taught like it or not. Comparing it to what other style's do or don't do changes nothing. Their reasons for doing so are not necessarily what Tatsuo was thinking. He may have been thinking of how it could fit into a nighttime or low light confrontation and knew about it being taught as such.

Instead of trying so damn hard to analyze what was going on in his mind. Take it with a grain of salt and train. If your so hung up on all this, find a dark room and have someone come in after you.

Personally, I think Ian and Steve are both afraid of the dark. Len, is just in the dark......lmao  

Rich 

Kata Discussions   3/20/04