Once I questioned if anyone used the fingernail for striking?

 

Fingernail Strikes

Allow me to suggest a new topic. As these days I am greatly diminished yet I train as I am able and teach. I do not often get out and tend to let my fingernails go about a ¼ inch or so long. I find I have to be careful with students, youth and adult, not to injure them with those nails, when I instruct them.

Has anyone ever run into specific training using fingernail striking.

With the throat being the primary target, I can think of several potentials. From the opening open hands in Kusanku kata shifting into fingernail strikes. Ueichi Sanchin another possibility. Aikido atemi flow strikes to the throat becoming fingernail strikes. Or the unique Eagle Claw snake strike becoming a fingernail strike. And other possibilities.

But has anyone heard of specific fingernail training?

 Joseph Walker Kinamotay is the Filopino art of biting and scratching. Don't have any knowledge of the scratching side but it is where I would start. 

Also my teacher, Grandmaster Trias, told me about some Chinese martial artists, who put poisons under their nails and scratched their opponents. This was where the term poison hand originated. This would seem very dangerous to me. 

Victor Donald Smith i am not into 'poison hand'. 

Chris Wheeler You don't need long fingernails to use them effectively. I will say, every single time I've bled in class it's been due to fingernails. 

Douglas Gallaher I think the techniques you are looking for are called "clipping" 

Sei Yamazato Peele There was a Chinese style called five venom fist or poison fist. Basically the person allowed the nails to grow long on the left hand. Then the nails would be sharpened and the tips dipped in various poisons. Although I don't think there is historical proof anyone ever did this, there is plenty of information about. 

Joel Morales For nails, the training is in poison, in bar/club, it might be tobacco ash with a little water or any drop of any drink, (coke can make it sticky), the target is the eyes. The idea is not to scratch but to deliver (blinding temporarily). To damage eye more permanently, use a toothpick and insert. 

Charles Garrett Sensei I cut my fingenails to point for better nerve point. Or if im in situation of unknown I set my nails for striking. 

Garry Lever Hokama sensei had very peculiar thumb nails which I'm convinced he sharpened to a point. Anyway, he used to specifically use the thumb nail to press certain painful areas. The techniques didn't work without said thumb nail development.

I tried cultivating my thumbnail for a while but ultimately abandoned it. I do miss the pretty polish I used to put on it though wink emoticon 

 Steven Surgeoner Yes, I trained with him this summer and felt his nails. 

Ron J. Brookshire Jr. Vit E, gellatin, rapping on wood 5 min per day, muso mung beans.... Open and close fingertips in beans. Bark scratching... Specific flicks

Uechi Sanchin has a lot in its depth. 

The tips of fingers for piercing ... It is the specific maneuvers to know... Seiyunchin is eye plucking and throat.... Sanchin is body piercing and ripping. 

Matt Jones Fusei Kise is said to have extraordinary pinky nail skills. 

Victor Donald Smith So far the responses lead me to believe this may be one of the things that is not discussed.

I did not intend this to be humorous.

I am not sharpening my fingernails.

I am not applying irritants of poisons.

Rather I was curious if anyone had serious training advice for use of the fingernails in defense, besides the obvious.

The potential from various kata movement is there.

I am not interested in assassination potential.

Rather the way they might be a force intensifier.

Hmmm, perhaps something new to consider. 

Douglas Berry The product that I cited above is one used commonly among Classical guitarists and Indian Sarod players, both of whom strengthen their finger nails for use on the instruments. As far as specific fingernail waza... 

Matt Jones Hopefully my post didn't seem like I was fooling around. I believe Fusei Kise does sharpen his pinky nails, the story is he aims for the throat or eyes. Supposedly his finger is gnarly and nail super tough. I don't know haven't seen it up close. 

Fred Riko Daniels I once caught a leading Shotokan instructor with my nails when I was in ju kumite he reprimanded me and asked me my grade.

I was actually practicing open handed parrying and attacking at the time being of slight build I gain more power from Openhanded circular techniques. 

Joel Morales I'm sorry I was being serious. Poison Is another name for medicine, given the wrong amount or introduced in a way other than prescribed is what does the bad. For true pressure point counters/attacks, i suggest lots of hand/finger strengthening exercises. 

Jeremiah Boothe In Hung Gar we often practiced eagle/tiger palm strikes to the chin/nose that were followed up by raking into the eyes with the fingernails/tips. 

Victor Donald Smith Now that I think about it, I have other application potentials from my other Chinese studies. Though fingernails were not specifically mentioned. I appreciate these thoughts from everyone. 

Andy Breth I know Sensei keeps her nails long and makes good use of them. Not specifically part of our style, but in her words "if it works, it's not wrong" 

Brant Wells Terry Wingrove has very hard nails that he uses to great effect. 

Tory Ellerson Yes there are traditional methods of thickening and strengthening the fingernails. They aren't often talked about or practiced today, but they exist.

What that training entails can vary widely between the schools that practice it. But it generally includes some type of impact training with the nails. This is often combined with various herbal soaks and specific dietary regimens. Usually, a lot of herbal soups with tendons, bones, and organs of certain animals.

I've only met one person who practiced nail training seriously enough to get very noticeable results. His nails were much thicker and raised up in the center. They looked almost like a cross between a human's nails and a dog's claws.

He used them to great effect in fighting, mostly puncturing and ripping skin. I don't know his training regimen, but it was probably relatively unsophisticated, and it did involve pissing on his nails.

He learned it in while training in Thailand and Indonesia in the 1980's.

As far as things like sharpening nails, poisons, etc. 

Sharpening is something that is done after the nails are thick and strong enough. 

Poison can and has been put on anything which can be used for fighting and is sharp enough to cut or puncture.

However, "Poison Hand" is a general term for a group of hand training methods which can vary greatly and often incorporate some aspects of the complex of ideas, practices, and beliefs surrounding Gu magic.

Five poison hand training is a method of hand conditioning which combines the practices of Gu magic with traditional Chinese medicine and traditional hand conditioning methods. There is no sharpening of fingernails or poisoning of hands involved. Although poisonous animals are used along with certain herbs in the hand conditioning recipes.

Victor Donald Smith I think I will take a pass on pissing on my nails. smile emoticon 

Tory Ellerson I'd rather piss on my nails than stick my hands in a jar of Gu. 

Angel Lemus In the Kyan Passai, the moves with the palm facing up can be targeted to the eyes and if you have finger nails targeting the eyes it can scrape and tear the cornea by design.



Robert Orozco 

Dante Da!

Dante Victor,

Thank you for the thread. This is an interesting conversation you presented. I am a bit surprised that no one spoke of a few things. The use of the toenails in kicks and the issue that longer nails may affect how other techniques are changed. Anyhow, in order to practice this method someone needs to train with extreme accuracy on a moving target. It is too easy to hit a "pressure point" on a willing, stable, and accepting target. Also, one will need to get used to understanding how far to penetrate to cause any real damage. I am afraid that without this type of training the fingernail techniques would be just a distraction and will more than likely cause harm to the person using it because the person on the receiving side would more than likely have a large amount of adrenaline running through their body. 

Also, the eye rakes and such are just distractions or off balancing techniques that are a precursor to a finishing technique. Frankly these techniques do not require fingernails at all. Also, to actually penetrate the skin with the fingers one does not need tough fingernails but must develop the finger alignments necessary to perform such an action. As I always tell my students, it is not enough to know about something one must be able to actually do it.

Also, one will need to get used to understanding how far to penetrate to cause any real damage. I am afraid that without this type of training the fingernail techniques would be just a distraction and will more than likely cause harm to the person using it because the person on the receiving side would more than likely have a large amount of adrenaline running through their body. 

Also, the eye rakes and such are just distractions or off balancing techniques that are a precursor to a finishing technique. 

Frankly these techniques do not require finger nails at all. 

Also to actually penetrate the skin with the fingers one does not need tough fingernails but must develop the finger alignments necessary to perform such an action. 

As I always tell my students, it is not enough to know about something one must be able to actually do it.



Dante Da, 

Dante Robert,

Your beautiful response even more makes me think that you are an important resource for me.

First, while my disability has me rethinking many things, I am not the least interested in inserting my fingers into anyone’s body parts. At the same time in conditions of extremis I would not limit myself, either. I don’t believe the little nail strikes discussed.

It is interesting so many did not comment, I think I hit on a topic most did not consider. Of course using potions and poisons is not what I was looking for. Nor what techniques would lend themselves to being used with fingertips.

Now let me logically approach these topics.

You make an interesting point about toe nails, but today if attacked I would not be Billy Jack and remove my shoes. Makes a case for steel reinforced toes But interestingly I have already had toe kicking training for boots. In my Chinese training period Ernie trained me in Tam Tuie, it was done wearing Chinese style boots and as Toe kicks, focused driven low ones (ankles, toe tips, insteps,etc.) to be able among other things to attempt to break legs. The angle of the kick, body alignment, etc. That I still can do, or at least the low kicks.

Sherman Harrill also used to focus kicks to the floor as training, He used the feet to kick the same areas.

Now to address some thoughts on targeting, you make a good point. However, from Sherman I believe I have an answer. Let us start with Seiunchin kata, where you slam your hammerfist into your palm. Even blindfolded you can hit your palm everytime. He used to have us try slapping our hands together, high, low, over and over. Each time our hands would hit, even when not watching. He used to share you can use that to hit anything, just have your both arms do so. The body’s targeting will make you able to hit towards your other palm on the other side of the target. So, the target is just between them.

I am sure the same device would work with fingertip striking, Your palm of the other side of the target.

There would still be the issue of aligning the strike to do damage. You are correct most empty hand strikes done as fingertips would just scratch, The eyes being a different case, And then perhaps thrusting into the throat.

I already have atemi from my aikido studies which insert the throat into the fingertips. Students have learned to fly 20 feet (as I did) throwing themselves away from that strike. I suppose using the fingernails would also be effective. The technique uses the opponents momentum moving forward to have them insert their throat on the fingertips. Fingernails are almost there, Easy targeting that.

I am on a roll.

Now the angle of alignment to insert the fingernail is of course critical.

I think I would first choose the Eagle Claw Snake Strike   Isshin - Concentration the Art: A shot to the Forehead , Where you strike with the middle finger extended. The 2nd and 4th finger are curled up alongside that finger for support. It took me several weeks of practice to learn how to form it. I first saw Ernie’s instructor, Leung Sheum, use it to strike into a student's forehead. Ernie then explained the move to me.

 

That is not the same as practicing insertion movements. That would be an entire different thing. I might ask Ernie about that.

Another possible hand formation came from a system (very ecletic kempo) called Kempo Goju, a long time ago. There they had a shark strike which uses the lead finger to strike, and the other fingers curled back for support. At that time we did not go into training to use it.

Fingernails are not needed but could be a force enhancer.

 

I think of other times I have been on the receiving end of finger strikes.

There was the time Tris was rehearsing Dave and I for a demo, during it he went down onto the floor. I moved in to attempt a stomp. Instead, he struck up with his middle finger into the exact point on my groin in the middle (the HuanYun point). At that point there are no muscles covering the point. And I learned how to fly, and it was painful as I did not know it was coming. I could see that as a fingernail strike.

Likewise, there were various multiple finger strikes to the face, neck and shoulder, those roll from one to the next.

The case seems to be fingernails are within possible strikes. Whether I could be able to do the training involved is another thing. Then again while I have shared those movements with my students, they are not regular practices either. Just explanations. This is something I would not teach, too specialized IMO. But your teachers explanations are worth considering.

Good discussion. Hope this makes some sense.

Victor Smith