.png)
Quite some time ago I received a message from Romney (RT) Taylor telling me about a new book he had gotten. The book was "Shotokan's Secrets" by BD Clayton. I told him I never heard of the book or the author, and that I was not very interested in most things in the Shotokan world.
Then he informed me that there was a foot note in the book quoting a passage from me. I did not know that. RT further told me he was going to send a copy of the book to me and to let him know what I felt about it.
Later Jet Taylor and RT began a discussion ot this book over the internet. I saved this discussion the eventually gave them my own review of the book. I did no just as the book contained a footnote about something I wrote. I did nor agree with how it was used. Hence my review.
I still know nothing about the author or what is occurring in the Shotokan world. But....
This is that discussion:
Greetings - Jet san, I made it through the beginning of the Clayton book, last night I was talking to my sensei about it a little, He had read a few reviews and articles about it, and his interest was peeked a little, In the course of the conversation, when he realized I was also reading 3 or 4 other books as well, he asked me if he could borrow the Clayton book, sensei figures He can read it before I really miss it. Anyway, I would guess that by next week I will have it back and will commit to reading it asap so we can discuss it.
Some of the other books I am reading are really dove tailing together and I have increasingly had little insights that are really hard to explain, Regarding the Visions of Ryukyu book, by Smits, This is very interesting, he is a professor at Penn State and has a web page at, http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/g/j/gjs4/ no longer active
check out some other articles he has written online : http://www3.la.psu.edu/textbooks/172/contents.htm no longer active
Most of th
e above are about Japan, the Visions of Ryukyu is more or less how the above and the changes in China, affected the Ryukyu Kingdom, it speaks about political movements and Philosophies etc that shaped the Okinawan Culture.
This fits very well with the "History of Chinese Philosophy", Fung Yu-Lan, that I am reading as well as my continuing studies of the Taoist classics, and various texts on ancient Chinese cosmology.
These all had a impact on Okinawan culture , thought and movements etc, including the collection of Arms etc, as well as their basic cultural philosophies, I think it also had to affect and shape the Indigenous fighting arts.
talk soon about the Clayton book.
romney^..^
Oh...reading the book Romney talked about.....VERY interesting points made by Dr. Clayton, especially on the differences between honne and tatemae throughout the history of karate. I'm really enjoying it. Hope you have a pleasant weekend....I have to start repairing the damage in the kitchen from a broken water line in the ceiling.....my ki just couldn't reseal the crack...:-).
Respectfully,
Jet Taylor
Hey Romney,
You saw pretty much the same things I saw regarding the use of Martinez as his primary source for all things Isshin Ryu. By doing this, I think he has seriously compromised his work. I have no issue with what Martinez has researched so that is not a criticism of him, but Clayton's arguments would have been much more substantial had he used more sources to back up his position about what he thinks the Isshin Ryu kata demonstrate.
I would take issue with your points on lighting and the open room concept. The impression I got was he viewed the circumstances as being conducted during daylight hours, specifically the meetings with Commodore Perry and possibly others as well. You might be reading too much into that point and I think the open room point has to do with the layout of the Shuri Castle complex specifically, not fighting in general. Remember, his point was that the kata were changed from their Chinese origins because the goal of Matsumura was to protect the royal family, not provide for a civil defense or really even a military one. I saw him as trying to convey a purpose similar to our own Secret Service in protecting the President.
Let me use one of your comments to illustrate what I mean. You said, "Makes no sense to fight your way out of a room in perfect lighting against armed attackers, while you are outnumbered and trying to escape with the regent, sorry I just can't swallow that." What else could they have done? You can't cut the lights out if it is daylight outside unless the hall was usually rendered dark by its very construction. Remember his point was mostly to buy time to get the regent to escape. He wanted to do this before the Marines had the opportunity to fire their weapons and I believe he theorized that was approximately a 20-30 second process.
If Matsumura and his guards did not have firearms, I don't think he had many other options. If you come into my house with the intent of attacking my wife, I am going to fight you over it in the hopes I can buy enough time she can get away or I can disarm you. Now obviously facing a company of Marines is different than one or two attackers but the goal would be the same. Remember when Ronald Reagan was shot by Hinckley? What did the Secret Service do? They had specific "teams" with different jobs who went into immediate action to both protect the President and get him away from the scene. My take on all of this is THAT was Clayton's point and based on THAT objective, he saw fit to change the "weapon" employed from open hand to closed fist.
I'm ok with his theory but I'm not ok with using the Isshin Ryu of Martinez as THE representative example. In fact, every instructor of Isshin Ryu I have participated with has primarily demonstrated basic bunkai exactly according to what Clayton theorizes the kata were changed into. In that respect, Isshin Ryu supports his theory. It does not offer a counterpoint or earlier example of the kata. Perhaps Uechi Ryu with its more open-handed movements would have been a better example. I'm not a student of that style so I can't say.
All in all, I did enjoy reading the book and it does give me some things to think about. However, as an author and especially as one who saw fit to include his Ph.D. title, I question the veracity and thoroughness of his research or at the very least, his logic. Again, I'm not quibbling with what Martinez has researched and I have four of his books. I'm just questioning why you would use him as your primary source when there are many others that demonstrate the more ballistic, linear techniques Clayton was espousing as the changes made by Matsumura.
For his bunkai, the one on page 223 might work, but why would I attack you with my fist if I have a sword at my side? I guess if we were in close quarters and I had not drawn my weapon, it might make sense, but I learned that specific technique as a block and groin grab first and as a throw after that.
For his bunkai on page 257, he has fallen into the same old trap of using the Shotokan stances which in my opinion, you will NEVER see in a real confrontation. I have very little knife fighting experience but NOBODY who I have ever worked with would even attempt such a foolish stab. Maybe a complete novice would but I suspect you would end up with your arm sliced at a minimum if not something worse. To me, the sword grabbing one made more sense than this one.
I have the Visions of Ryukyu book ordered from Amazon so I can get it for a birthday present in May. It will not be possible for me to comment on it until after then. I am working my way through one of the biographies on Musashi which also includes a new translation of Gorin no Sho plus Musashi's other works but I'm only about halfway through at this point. Once I get finished, I'll try and post something here. It is a HEAVILY footnoted text and the author presents multiple ideas for just about everything. I gave up on trying to read the footnotes along with the text and decided to just read them at the end. I simply got tired of having to refer to the back of the book 4 times before I even finished a sentence it seemed. LOTS of information though so you would probably enjoy it. Gotta go.
Jet Taylor
Greetings - One thing the Clayton book did was give me a interest in Perry's account of his visit to Okinawa and Japan, I checked his book out of the library, and it had a few prints in it. Over the weekend I had to take my daughter to several colleges for dance auditions, (to see if she can be accepted into the departments, so far they all want her to attend, so I'm really happy) , Well having nothing to do for hours and being at a college I went to the University library and found a beautifully illustrated Book of Perry's voyage, It was in color, many of the pictures being paintings in the Japanese style as well as prints and wood cuts, the Picture that Clayton used for the cover of his book, can be found in this book. Unfortunately, I could not take this book out of the library, but I am looking for it locally.
Anyway, I would love to actually visit the reconstructed Castle, in the above book, the room is very large with a high ceiling, comparatively speaking there are Only a handful of Okinawans in a room full of Perry's crew, and dignitaries, It does not look like it would have been brightly lit , I don't see a lot of windows or any central lighting etc., but, I admit you cannot tell from the pictures.
One thing the Clayton book did make me wonder about is escaping this room, in the pictures, almost all the Okinawans with exception of the servants (who should have been mostly female and appear to be male) are gathered in one small area in the back of the room.
In another picture, they are sitting at a large table, ON CHAIRS, again all the Okinawans primarily gathered to one end. Looking at these pictures, and realizing that they would have been severely out numbered , I think the only way out is backward, meaning, immediately getting into the hallway or passageway where you might have a chance to deal with the barbarians a few at a time coming directly at you, this is a Musashi tactic, as well as a time worn military tactic, divining headlong into a room full of armed sailors and Marines that are literally twice your size, and outnumber you extremely to me is a losing strategy, the sheer weight of the response would be overwhelming (your unbalance is the same as a weight, and a lot of Sun Tzu stuff about weight and momentum which I will spare the reader, but is also covered in the book Musashi when he is supposed to meet someone for a duel and the entire school is waiting to kill him).
Anyway, once in the hall or passageway, it would be lit by torches I assume, especially the hypothesized secret passage, why would this be brightly Illuminated, especially if , as Hypothesized you had a secondary force waiting in ambush as a blocking force, I would think you would use light to your advantage here, illuminating your enemy and hiding yourself.
One Hypothesis of my own is that the Okinawans waiting in the hall would have been armed with swords and FIREARMS, there is a reference in the Smits book to problems with Wako on the trading routes, this resulted in the crew of some Okinawan Ships being armed with Rifles etc. It is human nature , that if you have a weapon you will produce it when threatened, the Okinawans might not have been visibly armed, and might not have had a standing army etc, but there is evidence that they did have swords (and trained in swordsmanship) and that they did, at least for trade purposes have firearms), I think if they were trying to protect the regent, (not the king or his mother, who Perry never saw, he was hidden because he was a boy), that the fight would have gotten a lot bloodier than a bunch of karate dudes busting people up.
If you read Chinese strategy as found in the Book of stratagems, (I have the reference at home, and will post), you will find that the strategies used against Perry were well know, and nothing was by chance or unplanned for, I have to agree with Clayton on this, But, I do not agree with the idea of a couple of unarmed karate dudes, jumping into the middle of a open room full of big armed military folks as a winning strategy.
I am going to see if I can find some more pictures from the time, of this chamber etc, if I do find them, I can copy them and mail them to you,
Has anyone been inside the chamber where this supposedly would have taken place? I would be real interested in knowing what it is actually like in there. (I think it has been rebuilt).
Romney^..^
No comments:
Post a Comment